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GT3 and 996TT Comparison

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Old 12-29-2003, 01:46 AM
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Johninrsf
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Default GT3 and 996TT Comparison

GT3 and 996TT Comparison

I’ve been asked a few times to comment on the differences between the GT3 and the 996TT as I am an owner of both cars and drive both regularly (although for only 2500 miles, so far).
Following are some of my thoughts, written for the average person who will likely never or very seldom track their cars. I hope to provide some insight to assist a prospective Porsche owner who has heard about the GT3 as a “hot car” and may be considering the purchase of one, or the purchase of a Turbo. This is not meant to be a technical dissertation. And, the differences I have observed to date between these two cars are not meant to start another debate on which car is better. “Better” is in the eye of the beholder and is based on one’s personal taste, driving style and type of use. I feel I am very fortunate to have both cars and the ability to experience their different characteristics on an on-going basis. They are very different!

When I look at both cars sitting in my garage, the Turbo gives me the feeling of a larger car. I think this is partly due to the air ducts in the rear fenders; the width of the Turbo is wider by approx. 2 ½ inches; it is higher by approx. 1 inch according to the book, but it looks like more; the ride height is higher –when you look at a stock GT3 you don’t see any distance between the top of the tire and the top of the wheel well/fender. By contrast, the Turbo has a gap of around 3 inches between the top of the tire and the apex of the wheel well at the fender. These things, taken in by the eye, contribute IMO to the feeling that the turbo is larger.

Because the GT3 is lower, it is more difficult to enter/exit. The door sill of my GT3 is 1 ½ inches lower than that of the Turbo. That doesn’t sound like much, but it does affect entry/exit. Your legs exit the car at a more horizontal plane, and then you hoist yourself up. A woman in a skirt would notice this. If she had high heels on, she would definitely notice. And if you couldn’t open the door all the way due to some obstacle, it makes a difference. That unfortunately happens sometimes in my garage, depending on the latest clutter (tires, car parts, Christmas boxes etc.)

After you’re in the car, the Turbo gives the impression of a more luxurious car, but IMO not so much that you’d pay a lot extra for that advantage. Personally, I think the difference is subtle. Part of this has to do with additional leather as Standard Equipment on the Turbo which could also be optioned on the GT3. It also has to do with the seats, 4 seats in the Turbo vs. 2 in the GT3. Also, my Turbo has the standard electric seats, not the sport seats. They are very comfortable, to me, and compared to the non-electric sport seats in the GT3 (which are also very comfortable), they just seem more luxurious.
After you’re underway, both cars pick up a lot of road noise, though the GT3 is louder. I have Pirelli P Zero Assimetricos on the Turbo and Michelin Pilot Sports on the GT3. The Pirellis have a reputation for being noisy, but, in fact, both brands create a lot of road noise in both cars. Overall, the GT3 is considerably louder due to engine noise. The Turbo engine is very quiet by comparison.
A lot has been said about harsh ride of the GT3. I would not call it harsh at all. And, I would not hesitate to take a long trip in it. But there is a difference in the ride which, once again, contributes to the feeling of luxury in the Turbo.
The Turbo is, of course much heavier: 300+ lbs. depending on options. Since one has 2 wheel drive and the other 4 wheel, even if they weighed the same, the feeling of the Turbo would be heavier.
So, what you have with the Turbo (just by comparison with the GT3) is: a larger, more comfortable, quieter, more luxurious, heavier car with a gentler ride.
If I were going to dinner to a nice restaurant with my wife, there would be little question which car we would take.

These cars handle quite differently. Again, these comments are not about driving at the track or driving at the limit, but normal spirited street driving. The Turbo is a “set it and forget it” car in the corners. You set the steering wheel for the radius of the turn and pretty much forget it. Throttle inputs will not change anything but your speed. The GT3 on the other hand is very sensitive to throttle changes in the corners and transitions quickly from oversteer to understeer with a touch of the throttle. You can enter a 45 degree turn at 35 -40 mph (in other words, pretty slowly), set the steering wheel and then use the throttle to steer the car around the turn from the outside of the turn (with more throttle), to the inside of the turn (with less throttle). Lifting ever so slightly off the throttle, the front end will tuck in and decrease the radius of the turn. This is no “set it and forget it” car. All throttle changes require an adjustment to steering, to maintain the same line. Higher speed turns accentuate this quality.
As respects steering, I don’t know if there is a difference in the steering ratios in these cars. But, it sure feels like it. A one inch movement in the steering wheel of the GT3 seems to create a much greater heading change than in the Turbo. This is one of the first things I noticed when I started driving the GT3.
The Turbo feels heavy to me in the corners, partly due to the weight in the front end of 4 wheel drive. I don’t know how much of the weight difference between these two cars is in the front end, but to me it feels like most of it is in the front. I’m not wild about the cornering of the Turbo. Not because it doesn’t corner well, because it does, but because it feels heavy. I don’t feel as “in control”. By contrast, the GT3 is very light feeling. The word “tossable” has been used before. It requires very little effort and very little movement of the GT3 steering wheel to make the car turn. In addition, because even small throttle and steering inputs change the way the car takes a turn, this is definitely a car that the driver needs to control. In the Turbo, the same throttle and steering changes won’t do anything to upset what you originally intended. The Turbo will understand what you intend from the outset and will complete the turn, even if you are trying to screw it up. You might say that one car requires quite a bit of expertise, and rewards it with terrific performance. The other doesn’t seem to care who the driver is. It will do its job very well and make you look good, even if you aren’t.
A lot has been said about the height of the GT3s front spoiler making it difficult to navigate typical city terrain (e.g. driveways, potholes etc.). It’s true. When you need gasoline, you need to pick a service station that doesn’t have a steeply angled entry. You learn to avoid certain shopping centers due to difficult entry (e.g. some you can’t enter at all and others, you need to enter diagonally, and very slowly, putting you right in front of oncoming traffic going the other way –it’s a little embarrassing to hold everyone up while they see you going ever so slowly, scraping your front spoiler).
Finally, there is a big difference in the clutches of these two cars. I don’t think of the clutch in the GT3 as being heavy. But it does require much more effort to depress than that of the Turbo.
To summarize handling, the GT3 requires some effort, patience and a learning curve to master. With its harsher ride, noisier cockpit and low front spoiler, it wasn’t really designed to be a daily city driver in my opinion. The Turbo was. And, the Turbo will make you look like a great driver from the first time you take the wheel.

As to the engines, each of these cars makes power a different way and you can feel the difference in the seat of your pants. Of course, one is turbocharged and the other isn’t.
At 2500 rpm, the Turbo makes maximum torque of 421 ft. lbs. and maintains that number up to 5000 rpm when it starts to fall off, but not sharply.
At 2500 rpm, the GT3 is making only 227 ft. lbs. though it continues to increase up to 5000 rpm where it maxes out at 284 ft. lbs. The GT3 has a narrow (and inconsistent) sweet spot for torque compared to the Turbo.
While horsepower peaks in the Turbo at 5500 rpm at 415 HP, it peaks at approx. 7400 rpm and 380 HP in the GT3. Thus, the GT3 keeps increasing power into higher rpms well after the Turbo has maxed out and hit redline.
A lot of the power advantage the Turbo has evaporates because of its 300+ lb. higher weight. But, you still feel the power difference, just as you would if you were in a freight train accelerating the same as a small automobile. You see yourself going as fast or faster than you do in the GT3, and with the heavier weight, lower sound levels and other luxury sensations, you just know that something important is happening back there in the engine compartment.
Where the Turbo really outshines the GT3 is at altitude. Above 2500 ft., you begin to feel a noticeable difference. At 5000 ft., I’d forget about driving the GT3 altogether.
Having said all of this, it’s amazing that at sea level there’s not much difference in either acceleration or top speed between both cars, the extra horsepower and torque in the Turbo being offset by the lower weight of the GT3.
To summarize power, if you want performance from the GT3, plan on being at 5000 rpm or above. In the Turbo, all hell will break loose starting at 2500 rpm. As you can imagine, in spirited city driving, it’s going to be much easier making power in the Turbo. (On the track, which is not the subject of this comparison, the higher rpms of the GT3 are of great benefit).

In the “looks” Dept., one has to make one’s own judgment as to which car stirs the emotions the greatest. However, on a recent typical trip with the GT3, we experienced a) Some guys in a pickup truck came up on the driver's side and gave us a big "thumbs-up"; b) A guy in a big twin-pipe Mercedes rolled up on the passenger side, checked out the car, then powered away; and c) A customer sitting with his family at a fast food restaurant knew it was a GT3 and talked to us about it after having seen us drive down the street and into the parking lot. The Turbo doesn’t attract this much attention.

Here are some adjectives or phrases I would us to describe these cars:

996 Turbo: luxurious, smooth, powerful, fast, forgiving, easy to drive, street racer, the wife will approve, commuter, take on a trip, have fun with mods.
GT3: sporty, light, maneuverable, most fun you can have cornering, driver’s car, a little quirky, prefers the track, attracts attention for now

I love both of these cars. My plan was to use the GT3 almost exclusively as a track car, but I’m enjoying driving it so much on the street (on back roads) that I find I’ve been driving it more than the Turbo. Today, I drove the Turbo for a change, and I thought, “What a great and easy car to drive. I need to drive this car much more. There’s much less wear and tear on the driver, driving this car. It’s so smooth, so quiet, handles so well, really effortless. Tomorrow when I have a meeting downtown where I’ll be on the freeway for 50 miles, I’ll take the Turbo”
I guess in the final analysis, I think the Turbo is as good as it gets for luxury/performance transportation and an occasional mountain road. If I worked and used my car in business or for commuting, there’s no question that I’d get the Turbo. When I’m on the freeway, and some wise guy pulls next to me and wants to race, I want the Turbo.
However, for regular, spirited, week-end, back road or track driving, the GT3 wins hands down IMO.
I thank my lucky stars I have both!
Old 12-29-2003, 02:21 AM
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MM951
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Excellent comparison...Very enjoyable to read

sadly I cant afford either...I cant even afford the 125$ to buy a new cylinder head for my Conquest!
Old 12-29-2003, 03:20 AM
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MetalSolid
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That was a great write up... Maybe someone will give us a similar GT3/360CS comparison writeup in as many words...?
Old 12-29-2003, 03:23 AM
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Johninrsf
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Hey Mike and Metalsolid,

Thanks for the nice words. Greatly appreciate it.
John
Old 12-29-2003, 03:30 AM
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blkc4sny
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I'm in the market of ordering a GT3, and found your comparison very interesting. I fully understand the heaviness of the Turbo, having driven a friend of mine's Turbo and his C4S and agree it has a "set and forget it" steering experience.

From your "steering" experience, is the GT3 very hard to adapt to? How long did it take for you to feel comfortable in the way it needs to be driven? Having not driven a GT3 yet I'm curious to hear more about the challenges it has from the beginning. I'm not a weekend track driver, but I have taken a couple of DE courses over the past couple of years and really enjoy "driving" a sports car, especially on weekends, backroads, which is why I am going with a GT3 vs C2 or Turbo.
Old 12-29-2003, 03:36 AM
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blkc4sny
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John,

Thanks for the great writeup, I'm sure this will come in very useful to new buyers for either car.
Old 12-29-2003, 03:47 AM
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Johninrsf
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BLKC4sny,
I think your last sentence is key. The car wants to be "driven", and I'd have to say, driven fast. If one wants to drive around city streets in traffic at low rpms, this is not the car.
As to handling, I'm still learning about the car. I am waiting for my roll bar, seats and harnesses before I take it to the track (hopefully,in January). But, the learning phase is fun. And, I've just scratched the surface with factory stock settings. I can't wait to experiment with various camber/castor/toe/sway bar/wing settings !
I don't think there's any insurmountable challenge learning to drive this car. It's just that in comparison with the TT, where, in my opinion, there is no learning curve at all, this car will give you an education during the first 1000 miles (and in that period, you won't even have exceeded 4200 rpm which is the max. rpm during the 1000 mile break-in period).
Go for it and have some fun.
John
Old 12-29-2003, 08:28 AM
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jmmitias
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Amen, my brother. I have both as well and love both. I tell friends that they are like children, you love both but they are different.
Old 12-29-2003, 08:51 AM
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Bentley
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Dear John:

You presented this forum with a very precise and thorough review of each car's assets as well as liabilities.
Your comments on the flagging of the GT 3 at altitude was most germane to those who engage in long drives at other than sea level altitudes. A point regarding this that many forum members may not be acquainted with is the 5% diminution in oxygen levels per every 1,000 feet increase in altitude!
Again, your comments were well thought out and delivered.
May you enjoy both of your vehicles consummately!
Old 12-29-2003, 12:07 PM
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sjsharks
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Thanks John, your comments go a long way toward helping me make an infomed desision on these two great machines.

Whichever car I do purchase will be driven in the foothills of Northern California where you often get behind a few slow pokes who refuse to pass the car in front of them. I lean towards the TT for explosive acceleration to solve this problem, but other than this feature, I think I would be happier with the more nimble GT3.

Again, thanks for the realistic assessment.
Old 12-29-2003, 01:42 PM
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blkc4sny
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John,

Thanks again for your very well written response!
Old 12-29-2003, 02:38 PM
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Excellent - thank you!
Old 12-29-2003, 03:21 PM
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Sun Ra
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the 2 GT3's among us that have been dyno'd have over 400 HP. it's as fast as a TT [and a z06] and much more fun. on the westside of LA, i can pass 20 TT's driving up the street; i have yet to pass another GT3 other than Noel's once....

i drive it everyday as i have my GT2's and TT's. it farts around town just fine, just be one gear lower than GT2/TT if you need go. one thing john did not mention is the GT3 has a much better shift than the TT, shorter and more precise same as GT2

the front splitter is much less of an grinder than GT2, neither of which i consider an issue of merit except in winter the TT would be preferred for higher ground clearance and 4wd. and if you want really limiting clearance problems get a CGT.

at the track GT2 and GT3 are much better than TT in my experience. i think Jack agrees.
Old 12-29-2003, 05:37 PM
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sjsharks
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watt

How would you compare the two in terms of overtaking another vehicle say from around 55 mph to around 75 mph?
Old 12-29-2003, 07:33 PM
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John,

I want to add my thanks to the others already noted. Your analysis reinforces what others on this board(in particular watt, Viken and Adam) have said to me in their generous emails, as well as what has been written in the magazines.

Having the perspectives of the rennlist community is very helpful to someone like myself as I finalize my decision to move out of my 993tt and into the GT3.

Happy New Year to all!


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