Car&Driver-Jan04: GT3 vs. Stradale vs. Ford GT
02-27-2004, 10:11 PM
#76
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That was the flaw in the article. Since they put the GT3 last, the "value" analysis was meaningless. I too suspect the GT2 would have beaten the Ferrari. Hamann makes another underappreciated point. The tires make a bigger difference on a track than everything else. Do all the spring and shock things you want. If you put race tires on a stock car, it beats the suspension-modified car on standard rubber.
02-27-2004, 11:16 PM
#77
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Why is the GT2 left out of all these magazine tests anyway? Shouldn't they compare the GT2 against the GT40? If nothing else
it would be a better match from an HP standpoint. Is it just because the GT3 is the latest iteration from Porsche?
it would be a better match from an HP standpoint. Is it just because the GT3 is the latest iteration from Porsche?
02-27-2004, 11:31 PM
#78
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It could be Porsche didn't want to provide a GT2 for the test due to the very low number being allocated to PCNA this year. It could be because the magazine didn't want to risk having numbers that would contradict their intent to have the Ford GT come out on top in the performance numbers. I'm sure there's other theories as well.
02-28-2004, 12:30 AM
#80
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Geez, you guys - some of you are such cry babies...
'The Ferrari costs twice as much'
'If the GT3 had the same tires it would have eaten the Ferrari's a$$'
'They should have used a GT2'
'blah, blah, blah'
You sound just like Corvette owners complaining when a Corvette gets compared to a Porsche costing twice as much (and looses).
The Ferrari is a fabulous car. Live with it.
Jim
'The Ferrari costs twice as much'
'If the GT3 had the same tires it would have eaten the Ferrari's a$$'
'They should have used a GT2'
'blah, blah, blah'
You sound just like Corvette owners complaining when a Corvette gets compared to a Porsche costing twice as much (and looses).
The Ferrari is a fabulous car. Live with it.
Jim
02-28-2004, 12:58 AM
#81
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I love the Stradale! I just don't understand the basis for the comparison. Ferraris are awesome. I would take an Enzo over a GT2 personally. In fact, I would rather have an F40, but "apple to apples" only make sense. It may also be that I have a GT2 and am I jealous that it doesn't get a chance to fight.
02-28-2004, 01:07 AM
#82
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It could be Porsche didn't want to provide a GT2 for the test due to the very low number being allocated to PCNA this year
This sounds like the most logical solution, PNA wants, needs to sell a run of 750 GT3's here, so it wants the new baby to get as much press as possible. Strange though it may sound this was the test that finally persuaded me to get the GT3, when I realized how close it came for the $$ to the others, and (forgive me if you like 'em) I just couldn't spend all that $$ on a retro looking Ford with a hotted up SUV motor. I was seriously thinking about was the Gallardo, but I had read several reviews that said it was a little dull despite all its power and prowess.
This sounds like the most logical solution, PNA wants, needs to sell a run of 750 GT3's here, so it wants the new baby to get as much press as possible. Strange though it may sound this was the test that finally persuaded me to get the GT3, when I realized how close it came for the $$ to the others, and (forgive me if you like 'em) I just couldn't spend all that $$ on a retro looking Ford with a hotted up SUV motor. I was seriously thinking about was the Gallardo, but I had read several reviews that said it was a little dull despite all its power and prowess.
02-28-2004, 02:52 AM
#84
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The GT3 AND the Z06 are 'bang for the buck' contenders. Price is a significant factor (given the comparisons of GT3 pricing to Ferrari pricing), and the Z06 is less then half the price of a GT3 - and can run with (not necessarily beat) the Stradale, the GT3, a 996TT, and a Viper SRT-10.
I guess what I'm getting at is that if you can afford a GT3 you think it is worth the extra $$ over a Corvette and if you can afford a Ferrari, it's worth the extra dollars over a GT3.
BTW, I think the Enzo is in McLaren F1 and Carrera GT territory. In other words, a step up from a GT2.
Jim
I guess what I'm getting at is that if you can afford a GT3 you think it is worth the extra $$ over a Corvette and if you can afford a Ferrari, it's worth the extra dollars over a GT3.
BTW, I think the Enzo is in McLaren F1 and Carrera GT territory. In other words, a step up from a GT2.
Jim
02-28-2004, 04:17 AM
#86
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I agree that the Enzo and CGT are "better" than a GT2, but it all becomes a game of where do you stop in the quest to obtain the "perfect" sports car of it's time. I still like the F40 because it was THE sportscar of its time. They used to go for $1M, just like the Enzo does now. How much of the actual perfomance can most of us actually tap into in any of these cars?
02-28-2004, 11:48 AM
#87
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Jim
Good point. The Ford GT is also a phenomenal car. If you look at the numbers of the GT, it hangs with the Enzo on a regular basis. I don't give conspiracy theories any weight. The Ford GT is simply an *** kicker. The GT2 might have given it a run but the GT simply has too much power.
02-28-2004, 12:10 PM
#88
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Originally posted by macfly
Didn't you have that "twitchy at high speeds" feeling in your GT3 before you did the alignment?
Indeed I did, the car didn't feel stable at all in faster 70+mph corners (Willow 2 & 8). It felt like the rear wanted to drive wide around the car under steady power. Since this car feels like it works best under power this created a conundrum, go faster, and have it go wider, or back off, and have it pendulum around on you. That was my what my feeling of discomfort at speed was.
Since having the alignment and corner balancing done the car feels very different, it is predicatble and stable in the same two fast turns at Willow, and seems to be very close to neutral. Judy Ray, who is one of my main instructors (and raced Pcars for 6 years) also drove it at the track post alignment, and she felt that it handled exactly as a well set up Porsche should.
The difference in feel of the before and after was very pronounced in terms of my confidence in the car. In terms of absolute lap times I'm not sure how much of a difference it made, but it has transformed the car from something I didn't really like into something I now like very much.
The car still feels a little wobbly at 110mph going thru turn 8, but here, at McKenna's and at Johnson's that has been attributed to the side wall flex of the MPS tires. I already have the MPSCup tires here, and will put them on as soon as I've used up the last few mm's of the OEM tires learning the car a bit better.
Didn't you have that "twitchy at high speeds" feeling in your GT3 before you did the alignment?
Indeed I did, the car didn't feel stable at all in faster 70+mph corners (Willow 2 & 8). It felt like the rear wanted to drive wide around the car under steady power. Since this car feels like it works best under power this created a conundrum, go faster, and have it go wider, or back off, and have it pendulum around on you. That was my what my feeling of discomfort at speed was.
Since having the alignment and corner balancing done the car feels very different, it is predicatble and stable in the same two fast turns at Willow, and seems to be very close to neutral. Judy Ray, who is one of my main instructors (and raced Pcars for 6 years) also drove it at the track post alignment, and she felt that it handled exactly as a well set up Porsche should.
The difference in feel of the before and after was very pronounced in terms of my confidence in the car. In terms of absolute lap times I'm not sure how much of a difference it made, but it has transformed the car from something I didn't really like into something I now like very much.
The car still feels a little wobbly at 110mph going thru turn 8, but here, at McKenna's and at Johnson's that has been attributed to the side wall flex of the MPS tires. I already have the MPSCup tires here, and will put them on as soon as I've used up the last few mm's of the OEM tires learning the car a bit better.
02-28-2004, 12:13 PM
#89
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Originally posted by Jim Hodel
Geez, you guys - some of you are such cry babies...
'The Ferrari costs twice as much'
'If the GT3 had the same tires it would have eaten the Ferrari's a$$'
'They should have used a GT2'
'blah, blah, blah'
You sound just like Corvette owners complaining when a Corvette gets compared to a Porsche costing twice as much (and looses).
The Ferrari is a fabulous car. Live with it.
Jim
Geez, you guys - some of you are such cry babies...
'The Ferrari costs twice as much'
'If the GT3 had the same tires it would have eaten the Ferrari's a$$'
'They should have used a GT2'
'blah, blah, blah'
You sound just like Corvette owners complaining when a Corvette gets compared to a Porsche costing twice as much (and looses).
The Ferrari is a fabulous car. Live with it.
Jim
02-28-2004, 12:30 PM
#90
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Where can I get all this done and how much should I expect to pay? I don't care for "twitchy" in high speed corners...
brh986 I would suggest the local chapter of you Porsche Club will have a list of specialist race shops in your area. Go to the national site, and then look for your area, you should find a contact there with all the right info. http://www.pca.org/
There may also be some listings here on Rennlist somehwere, but I'm not sure where.
One the main subject of the thread I think that it is hard sometimes for magazines to put together a 'perfect' line up of cars, you get what the makers & distributors have in their press fleets, and want to give you. When a new model comes out all the mags are scrambling for it, and all trying to tell a unique story. It is best to read them all, both the UK and US publications, and make your mind about from all the reports, not just one. Never take what they say too seriously either, just because it is written doesn't make it gospel.
brh986 I would suggest the local chapter of you Porsche Club will have a list of specialist race shops in your area. Go to the national site, and then look for your area, you should find a contact there with all the right info. http://www.pca.org/
There may also be some listings here on Rennlist somehwere, but I'm not sure where.
One the main subject of the thread I think that it is hard sometimes for magazines to put together a 'perfect' line up of cars, you get what the makers & distributors have in their press fleets, and want to give you. When a new model comes out all the mags are scrambling for it, and all trying to tell a unique story. It is best to read them all, both the UK and US publications, and make your mind about from all the reports, not just one. Never take what they say too seriously either, just because it is written doesn't make it gospel.