Scott5

After this post, I'm going to have to change my screen name - I'll be too embarrassed to keep it!

I bought a car this evening, private party sale. Looked great, test drove it three times over two days, decent records, Pretty good (not amazing) price. ~ 20% below edmunds private sale number.

Car was described to me as "recovered theft" - I was led to believe that the car had been stolen for a few days and suffered very minor damage to the rear qrt. Careful examination shows very, very minor fiberglass to the area. I've restored cars in the past and trusted myself to examine area.

I convinced myself that the price deduction is worth the recover theft blemish - resale isn't important too me.

Now I get the paperwork home - NY title, in small print near the bottom says "Rebuilt Salvage/PA"

I immediately assume this means the car was totaled - I call the seller who says theft recovery is accurate but the titles will always say rebuilt title. He strongly resists reversing the hour old deal. The owner (a phamasist) had the vehicle for two years and put 40K miles on car; I don't think he's flipping cars for a living.

I got a hold of my porsche dealer as he was locking up. Dealer says car may not have been totaled, or even damaged. According to dealer, if insurance company pays off car because it isn't immediately recovered, then they have to sell it as "Junk" and this results in a salvage title. I re-examine car in my garage - I find no further signs of damage.

Anyway - the above is for your amusement (Scott's at it again guys).

Does anyone know if there is a grace period on contracts between private individuals? My laywer's not picking up his cell phone and if I do have a 24 hour grace, I'll want to get something notarized tomorrow.

If not, I'll probably just enjoy the car - stress isn't good for anyone!
(I will still be changing my screen name though!!!

Phil

Here in Ca. there is no "recission"

a salvage title means anything from complete.......rebuild....too something as mundane ......has a theft recovery. If the car was recovered after 30 days, and only the seats were missing....it becomes a "salvaged" car

same goes for a "lemon" car....the problem could have been a bad abs sensor, that the dealer could not fix on 3 attempts(CA law)...bingo...car becomes a "lemon"car...due to at faulty abs sensor.....or inabilty of dealer to fix car!

Did the PPI you had performed show any damage???

I guess my confussion arises from your " Pretty good (not amazing) price. ~ 20% below edmunds private sale number."......If you were not happy with the price.....why write the check?????

Scott5

I was "happy with price" when under the impression car was a simple theft recovery. I.e - price was good thinking car had been someone's joyride for a "couple of days."

I'd be unhappy if it turns up that the car had been totaled to the tune of 75% or more of it's value.

My research over the night confirms what you said - the title's description is vague - it could have been either case...

The inspection showed no damage (other than a repaired quarter panel) and I'd find it hard to believe that a "totaled" car could be repaired to the extent that the repair would be invisible. I'm having someone come out and look at the car again this morning at my house to specifically look at frame, etc...

But at this point, if New York also has no recission, I guess the inspection will just give me peace of mind at highway speeds.
Thanks for the info Phil.

BigHeadDennis

Generally, Scott, there is no right of "recission" for a deal between two individuals (non-businesses). You might have a remedy in a claim for fraud if the "salvage" title wasn't disclosed prior to the execution of the deal, but it would likely be a fair bit of effort unless the seller collapses at the very hint of a lawsuit. The argument would be that he had an obligation to disclose.

Laws will vary from state to state, however, so consult your lawyer when he/she picks up the cellphone. As for the title, it's quite common (again, jurisdiction dependent) for states to mandate the issuance of a "salvage/rebuilt" title for a car that had been stolen and not recovered within a minimum amount of time, even if the car has not been damaged in any way.

As to value... ask yourself this question - you were relatively happy with the selling price BEFORE you found out about the salvage title, so how much would you have offered if you knew about it before the sale? This would be the basis of your claim against the seller.

General rule of thumb, a salvage title is usually a ~40% discount to fair market value. Less of a discount if the car isn't damaged-then-repaired, but certainly significant.

Lastly, check with your state's DMV and insurance agent. Some states do not allow certain types of coverage (comprehensive, collision or both; liability only) for cars with salvage titles.

Good luck!

vty,

--Dennis

ben in lj

"Lastly, check with your state's DMV and insurance agent. Some states do not allow certain types of coverage (comprehensive, collision or both; liability only) for cars with salvage titles."

yes, and many manufacturers will deny warranty coverage on salvaged cars as well. 20% discount is not enough for the buyer IMO.

teflon_jones

i wouldn't worry about the car having problems if you and the guys you're having inspect the car don't find anything. i had a car stolen that then got a salvage title, and all that had been done to it was that the steering wheel cover had been taken off and a screwdriver shoved into the ignition to start it. other than that, no damage was done, and even though the car was recovered inside of 30 days, it still had a salvage title.

DonW-Cape Cod

That's a bummer...hope everything turns out OK.

jw97C2S

It may be difficult to find an insurance company even willing to insure the vehicle once they determine it to be a "salvage."
Jim

JC in NY

What struck me as wierd was your reference to fiberglass?

Fiberglass is not an acceptable modern bodyshop procedure to repair any kind of collision damage under any circumstances.

abetaque

I would just be happy with the car... even if you were legally able to rescind the contract (which you can't, unless there was fraud), the legal fees would be too high to justify pursuing it.

Torags

To the person formerly known as Scott5:

You could probably research some police files in the locale of the seller, to find out how bad the stolen car issue was. There "may" be a police report available.

Then you could make an educated decision whether to keep the car or hang the bast**d..

1AS

Is the average person to know that "theft recovery" means the car comes with a salvage title? I didn't know that. I've had 2 cars stolen and recovered, but since the insurance did no more than pay the repair costs, I had no salvage title. Since the price of this misunderstnading is at least 20% of the purchase consideration ( estimate @ $35,000 so the economic loss is about $7,000), I'd be inclined to invest a few thousand in attorney fees to rescind the sale or gain a $7,000 rebate from the seller. You'll never be whole on this deal at your resale unless there is rectification. Just filing suit will probably result in a settlement offer equal to the amount of the anticipated defense. If the seller had said "salvage title" at any time, I'd retract everything I just said. AS

teflon_jones

a salvage title should have no effect on your car's insurability or your insurance rate.

the only thing i'd worry about is the resale value, but you already said you don't care about that. i think you got a good deal then.

teflon_jones

yeah, that sounds pretty weird to me too unless you're talking about one of the bumpers.

jw97C2S

"a salvage title should have no effect on your car's insurability or your insurance rate.

the only thing i'd worry about is the resale value, but you already said you don't care about that. i think you got a good deal"

Tell this guy he should have no trouble insuring a salvaged vehicle. You would find many more examples if you looked.


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