Vancouver996

a major factor is confidence , on a well set up coilover car , the planted feeling instills much more confidence and you can be aggressive and smooth. you don't get that pogo MO30 feeling with the more linear dampening.

Slakker

But for a novice to intermediate driver, the M030 is forgiving enough that it allows you to test your grip and slip a lot more on a good set of tires than coilovers will. Make no mistake, I'm in the process of upgrading from Moton 2way to JRZ 3-way on my track car, so I'm not diminishing the value of a good set of coilovers at all. But for a combo DD/track car, I liked the M030 setup a whole lot better than I thought I would.

Vancouver996

not sure I agree , better suspension is going to give you more grip and confidence even a rookie will notice this , but in this case we are talking about ultimate track times.
and if the 996 was on pss9s and the cayman was on m030s , the inherent mid engine advantage would be a lot less noticeable.

grip and slip on m030s might feel like more fun but its not going to get you around the circuit faster , the opposite actually.

Slakker

The OP talked about confidence being a factor. Set your coilovers to 90% soft compression. Drive half a session near the limit. Pull in, switch to 90% stiff compression, drive the rest of the session near the limit. Your lap times should improve by 1-1.5s faster on a 2 mile track with the stiffer compression but it will require more precision to achieve. The fact that you soften compression to increase "grip" is what lends itself to being more forgiving and confidence inspiring.

Because there are several arguable points introduced above, if you deem the conversion worthy of continuing, it may be worth replying in a new thread to prevent derailment.

mjdavis

What's an internet thread without some derailment?

One thing that I think is relevant - both the cars in my comparison were street cars. As in, driving to the train station and the grocery store. They had to get me home at the end of the track weekend. My first kid came home from the hospital in the back of the 996 (I lived in NY and it was my only car...)

To get to the point, I would bet that my old 996 (esp with the Star Spec 2s it wore later in life) could go just as fast, or faster, than my current 987. But the things that make driving a 911 so rewarding - the oversteer/understeer management (often in the same corner), the occasionally counterintuitive inputs (when in doubt, add power!) - required more commitment than I guess I was willing to give in the pursuit of ultimate lap times.

This must be why I keep looking for 944s and trailers...

Slakker

Great post! Be sure to post pictures of the 944 track rat when you get it!

John@Fabspeed

Great writeup and fun experiment! Once thing I learned very quickly some time ago is that if the tires aren't the same you can pretty much throw an even comparison out the window haha. I recently hit NYST and had a stripped but stock E36 M3 on RE71Rs lap within 2 seconds of me on pretty bald Michelin Super Sports. Made me realize how much potential was on the table with good rubber. The perfect "street tire" is now top priority for me next season, and those RE71Rs are likely top on the list from all the great feedback I been hearing/seeing.

Slakker

The re-71 look awesome. But I think in the long run, a set of Nt01 on trashed out track tires and your MPSS for street would be a better investment. As quick as the RE-71 will wear, financially it should be a wash after a couple of years. This way you end up with a better track tire and a better daily tire. Just my unsolicited 2cents though.

John@Fabspeed

I thought so too on the NT01, but I don't think they are that much better than the NT01 to be honest. Just read a nice article about a comparison between the two as well, which I though was quite intriguing.

http://www.prima-racing.com/bridgest...king-part-two/

I'm good running the RE71s for a season or two, as in the next year or two the end goal is a set of slicks on separate wheels once I get a trailer to transport. And like you said...Super Sports for street.

Slakker

Great article. I didn't realize the RE-71s were so fast. That's pretty cool. Although this is where it's at for me:

“The Nt01 is loose comparatively. It doesn’t require as much steering angle and the car can break loose easier in mid corner, however it only turns to a nice, smooth slide."

But once you try slicks you are ruined forever. The pirelli DH through usedracingtires.com are the ticket IMO. They are still crazy expensive ($600 shipped) for 20 heat cycles but it's worth it.

John@Fabspeed

The majority of everyone at the HPDE events, AutoX, and the AER races I attended this year were running the RE-71R. Given it is "200" treadwear for the street classes, but that is BS haha.

My buddy Paul Solk is running I believe some nice Kumho? slicks at the NJMP that go up to a 275, and he loves them....said they were $100 for a brand new set. I'll likely go with them just due to cost haha

Slakker

Ya, RE-71 street tire is for cheaters. they built a great tire but have made a boatload just from sandbagging the treadware rating.

Hankook z214. Those are still a DOT tire but absolutely awesome rubber for the money. As fast as an R7 for 2/3rds the price. Very very fun to drive.

NYoutftr

This is a very interesting thread.

Especially, because as I get older, the PDK Cayman is looking pretty darn good.

Thanks for starting the thread.