Bash Hat

Hi all. Been lurking around for a couple months trying to gain as much info on the 996 as possible. I'm probably 3-4 months away from putting a 911 in my garage and wanted you guy's input. I've owned mustangs (with a few mods) and motorcycles (currently Italian marques) and have always had good luck on their respective forums. The good thing is I do a ton of research before laying out any $$$. The bad thing is I do a ton of research before laying out any $$$ and reading forums, especially ones to do with Italian motorcycles can scare the bejeezuz out of someone! I usually learn to take the scary stories with a grain of salt and come to realize it's a small %.

My budget and usage needs puts me in 996 C2 territory (MT of course) and I'll be using the car for weekend canyon fun here in the LA area as well as cruises up the coast with the wife and 4yr old kid. From what I can gather my best bet would be a '99 MY with good records and a thorough PPI. Would I be good to also consider a later model that has had the IMSB done or better yet have it done right after purchase?

Is the general consensus if I went with a '99 MY to leave the IMSB untouched if the car has good docs?

I've yet to test drive a 911 as I don't want to waste anyone's time but will do so as I get closer to purchase time. I've driven a couple Boxsters and liked the way they handled but the allure of the 911 is pulling me in, plus I have the back seat for my daughter.

Apologies if I posted this in the wrong section (mods, feel free to move it as needed) and I'll make sure to post a proper intro when I am a 996 owner. In the meantime I'm looking forward to reading and learning from you all.

Cheers,
Stu

FRUNKenstein

Hi Stu. Strong first post.
Regarding timing, keep in mind that 3 to 4 months from now will put you right at the start of spring fever buying season. Typically the market goes up about 10% during this time - people have tax refunds burning a hole in their pockets and inventory won't stay around long.
'99 model year is a good choice and yes you might as well ride that factory dual row IMS bearing as there seems to be some consensus that a replacement bearing may not be as good.
While a PPI is a good idea, keep in mind that it is no guarantee. Our local Porsche guru insists on pulling the sump plate whenever he does a PPI on a 996 - makes the PPI more expensive, but I get his reasoning.
Also, I strongly prefer to buy from a private individual over a dealer. You not only are likely to get service records, but you also get a feel for how he/she cared for the car.

Bash Hat

Thanks KC. Completely agree with all of your points. My timeframe is based partially around my yearly job bonus so it's unlikely I'll be able to move up the purchase.

I'm looking around for a trusted Indy Porsche shop here in LA. Have read good things about one in Pasadena and another in Reseda. If anyone has recommendations in my area that'd be great. For the PPI, I actually was hoping the pan could be pulled. I'm more than happy to pay the extra if it'll save me in the long run.

Definitely going private party. As you said KC you can really get a sense for how the previous owner treated the car and its history.

Bradstock

Visit the car cold and observe the cold start from behind the car to look for smoking and listen for unusual noises. Look for records of replaced water pump, AOS, and of course frequency of oil changes and other routine maintenance. I agree dropping the sump plate and having the contents inspected is important. You may also want to consider a compression test and possibly even a leak down test to further assess the health of the engine. I also suggest patience and persistence. Be picky as hell; you will be happier long term if you find the right car (records, condition, mileage, colors etc.), even if it takes you six months longer to find it. Best of luck.

johnireland

Yes to what the others have already said. And yes to an early 99 (with a 1998 build date...the earlier the better)...assuming that the car warrants your consideration. Tony Callas at RennSport in Inglewood does the most complete PPI around...and it costs about $1700 I believe...but it is as good a PPI as you will find, you will know everything there is to know about the car. And you don't have to go that way if you don't want to. But then service history is very important. Also be picky about things...if you don't like something like the color or the interior or whatever...walk away. Ideally you'll be keeping the car for a long while and if you buy something that you don't really love, it will nag you every time you get in the car.

You haven't talked about your targeted budget. On top of the price, put $5000 aside for possible/probable repairs that you might want to make as soon as you get the car...depending on the service records and condition. Water pumps, AOS, motor mounts, clutch, alignment, tires, brakes...all these things are relatively easy to fix and wouldn't be a reason to pass on a car, but rather to negotiate price. Depending on the car, sometimes one that needs some work is a better deal than one that "needs" nothing but is priced through the roof.

IMS...probably the two best guys to do the ultimate solution are Jake Raby back in Georgia and Tony Callas here in Inglewood. If you feel a need to do the clutch then do the IMS at the same time, but go for the extra bucks and make it the one time only permanent solution that Callas and Jake do.

There are lots of good shops in LA who can give you good service. If Tony were nearer I'd probably use him all the time...but getting cross town isn't easy in LA so there are a couple of shops near me in the San Fernando Valley that I currently use.

Do not be embarrassed to drive people's cars...even if you know you don't want to buy that particular car. The driving will educate quickly and you will become familiar with what a good car feels like and what a neglected car feels like, and you'll become familiar with the market place in terms of prices, and you'll get a good sense for when a car is "right" or "wrong."

Have a great time looking.

joseph mitro

I don't have much to add except to say in my recent searches, seems the 99-02 asking prices are $low teens to mid 20s, while 03-04 cars are $mid to high 20s - if that makes a difference in your prospective purchase

good luck

Bash Hat

Thank you guys. All good stuff to know going in. Re my budget, I'm in the $18-$22k range. There seems to be a myriad of 996s here in CA for that money. Quite a few have been well maintained/IMSB done but obviously that's just on paper. No way to really know without a PPI. There's a few less than that too but I'd imagine those I should steer clear of (although just read someone's post re a guy buying a 243k mile one for $9.5k but I'm sure that's an anomaly).

For my budget I'm seeing cars in the 70k-120k mile range. Big question for me is should I go for one with slightly more miles and do the IMSB and clutch (and any other small items needed) myself and factor that into the purchase price or spend more on a car that has already had those items done. I see a few sub 80k mile 996s that have had a new clutch put it. Strikes me as a little odd as I've always driven manuals and never had to replace a clutch other than the one time I elected to put in a "high performance" clutch, but the original was still fine. Always assumed clutches could last well over 100k miles. Of course some may have replaced their clutch if they were doing the IMSB since they were already in there.

John, I'll have a slush fund for rainy day items. I know going in this is not a Toyota Camry but being the car should only see around 5-6k miles a year I'm hoping it won't drain my wallet completely.

JayG

Here is a list of good shops that all do tech inspections for PCA events
http://www.zone8.org/events/tech_stations.php

I don't know a lot about shops in LA, but any of the San Diego shops are great

Callas is one of the best, but tends to be a little $$

Bash Hat

Thank you Jay! I'll hold onto that list for future reference. I'm 10 mins from NARW and have read good reviews on that shop.

Slakker

FYI, 2-3 months is about when my '99k with all maintenance already performed and 87k miles will be going up for sale.

They '99s are absolutely amazing cars. The only reason I'm selling this one is because I have 2 others. But that's a whole other story.

johnireland

Slakker's car would be worth waiting for from a mechanical point of view. And that would give you time to plan things you might want to do to it to make it yours. You could fly there and drive it home.

Bash Hat

That would make for a fun road trip.....

TCallas

Callas Porsche Pre-Purchase Inspection Recommendations

Test Drive.
Check Engine Oil Level.

Control Module Interrogation (If applicable):
a) Run Suitable Tester & print all fault codes and applicable data.
b) Check for any Range #2 (9X6) or #4-6 (9X7) over revs.
c) Check POSIP (airbag) for any occurrences-incident history (If no accidents, these should be all 0’s)
d) Check production date of POSIP Control Unit (Compare to vehicle production date)
e) Check for any valve train inconsistencies-Deviation (Deviation= Actual vs. Nominal)
f) Check TPMS wheel electronics battery age or battery specification condition (20 Months minimum)
g) Check DME Operating hours (Divide mileage by operating hours= Should be around 25-35 AVG/MPH)
h) 993- Perform secondary air injection test for rough idea of valve guides condition.
i) Check OBD-II monitors for ready status. Could indicate recent reset of the Check Engine Light.

Engine Oil Inspection:
Engine Oil Filter Inspection: (Remove, cut engine oil filter open and inspect for debris)
Engine Oil Pan Inspection: (Remove engine oil pan and inspect for debris on all 9X6’s & 9X7’s)

Accident Damage/Body and Chassis Check Over:
a) Check over car complete for any accident damage.
b) Remove tail light and headlight assemblies, remove all front trunk carpeting including spare wheel, remove front cowl area covers and remove all 4 wheelhouse liners if applicable, all in an effort to further inspect for any accident or repaint damage.
c) Use electronic paint thickness gauge and check all panels for any inconsistencies.
d) Inspect all paint visually for any inconsistencies.

Mechanical check over:
a) Inspect car thoroughly mechanically.
b) Inspect for any new suspension bits.
c) Inspect car for engine or gearbox replacement.
d) Inspect car completely and note all suspect, detected and observed items. All these items should be itemized and given to the client requesting (paying) for the Pre-Purchase Inspection.
e) Perform Engine leak down and compression tests. Document all details on paperwork and invoice.

Other:
a) Are there any Recalls and or open Campaigns?
b) 997 Voltage drop issue usually caused by the Battery-Charging system cables X3.
c) Check Gearbox oil condition and road-test listening for any noises.
d) Brake fluid condition with moisture measurement tool.
e) Fuel trim values analyzed.
f) OBD II Ready status reached for 993 models.
g) Option numbers to determine build sheet.


Final evaluation and consultation:
Document all results, email photos and data to prospective client; discuss all data with client during a telephone call or in person in an effort to help the client make an educated decision.

Test Drive with a close ear and feel about the car, remember to listen to your intuition!

Tony Callas

Bash Hat

Thank you Tony. I purchased one a few days ago and had the PPI done by Chuck Miller at Millersport in NC. He went through the car top to bottom. Pulled the oil filter apart, ran a magnet over the pleats, cam deviation was 0 on one bank, -3 degrees on the other. Stored codes were P1123/1125, but knew that going in as seller had made it known beforehand (new Bosch MAF arrived today, will install it as soon as the car arrives). Last overrev (range2) was 24k miles ago. In 2013, IMSB (LN double row), clutch,flywheel, AOS, RMS all replaced. Paint and body was checked. New M030 suspension installed recently. Car checked out very well and will be on a truck this week!

Barn996

Sounds good Bash Hat and quite thorough. How many miles on the car?