Anth115

Hey everyone.

I've come across a 2002 c2 and I'd like some advice regarding whether you all think this is a fair example since I haven't followed this market closely for long.

The car is black (L041) on black sport interior. It has 127,000 km (~80k miles), is located in Toronto and was listed for 26.5k, then 23.5 and I think the seller would accept 17-18k. No accidents and all original paint.

The car has a decent history at the local dealer - all oil changes on 15k km intervals, Rms and IMS "shield" (not sure what that is) 40k ago, and not much else of significance. 3rd owner.

Car needs brakes, clutch is about 50% worn and an indicator switch assembly... I can DIY those except the clutch. The shifter feels loose and when going from R to 1st, the shifter won't recenter and stays tilted to the left. The seller paid the dealer to do a ppi and I spoke with them - they feel that the shifter is pretty usual for the age of the car and didn't find any faults. The coolant was dark - black not brown - the ppi didn't mention any oil in there but i haven't really seen dark coolant like that before...

The interior is in good shape and so is the exterior. The car doesn't have too many options but has the basics - 6cd Bose audio, 18" wheels, heated seats, sports seats and aluminum shifter and e brake.

Any do you guys think this sounds like decent car, or do any red flags jump out, with price, mileage and maintenance needs in mind?

My main concern is the mileage might make it more expensive to own and hard to sell if/when needed.

I would use it as a nice weather daily driver and maybe do 3 hpde days a year. I'm coming from an e46 m3 and c6 z06 so while the speed and some maintenance needs aren't new to me, the RR configuration/Porsche world in general is.

Thanks in advance - great community on this forum!
Anthony

Hurdigurdiman

As the old song says "Just walk on by"...

kmagnuss

Pass.

relinuca

Every dog needs a home. But frankly, much nicer examples (with strong, detailed mntce. histories) are available. The coolant color and "minimal" oil changes would cause me to "run the other way".

relinuca

02TX996Cab

Run, don't walk, away...

15,000 km (10,000 mile) oil changes and no documented IMS work are a BAD combination. Add to that coolant color (brown or black both bad) and host of other deferred maintenance items like clutch, shifter, indicator switch...I think all the data you need to make a good decision is in front of you.

GL

Strega(UK)

I would have said 10k mile oil changes is more than sufficient. And stock IMS no biggie. Mine is still on original and going strong. I would only be concerned with coolant colour. I am sure you could get that sampled.

theporscheguy

A - Don't trust someone else's PPI
B- Coolant color could certainly be an issue.
- How long has the coolant been in service?
- Is the coolant mixing with another fluid to cause the color?
C- What type of oil did they use at those intervals?

With that type of a price drop either
- They could not find a buyer at the asking - potentially priced too high
- Others have looked at the car and have deemed that the issues outweigh the now better price point.

I would continue the search at look for a better example and avoid the potential for large repair bills in the near future.

Anth115

Thanks guys - great responses.

It's the first 911 I've driven so sometimes it's hard to be logical about the decision especially with an attractive price point and such a fun driving experience fresh in mind.

Just FYI - the oil was always M1 and the coolant hasn't been changed (another one of those "lifetime" fluid theories...).

Anyway - I guess the search continues!

rockhouse66

If those are CDN prices there would quite a bit of room to fix stuff IMO. But I agree you should not buy the first one you look at, or at least not this first one.

FRUNKenstein

+1 It is a 13 or 14 year old used car. It won't be perfect. 80k miles is decent. 10k miles on full synthetic oil is not abusive - sure most of us would change it more frequently but you have some over the top maintenance mindsets in here. We are talking about a US $13,500 car here, correct? If you like it, I wouldn't cross it off my list. I would definitely drive some other cars to compare before making an offer though. And then if you agree on a price, get a ppi to check out that coolant.

Porscheby40

This is the exactly what I would recommend.

Anth115

Yeah it is always a risk to buy the first example of a used sports car you see - hence the need for some feedback.

Have any of you actually had slightly dark looking coolant that wasn't an intermix issue? That and the lazy shifter were my main concerns.. The rest is just overdue normal maintenance and contributes to the car being sold at a discount.

Finally - regarding value, what do you think the car would be worth roughly once the regular maintenance is caught up on (Assuming no real intermix issues of course)?

I'm unsure on the true value of 996s with this many mileage (or how much they've trended downwards recently) - so my overall worry was quickly being in the red on this car soon after buying it.

Macster

An oil intermix problem in the coolant should have globules of oil on top of the coolant. The old saying oil and water don't mix applies here. Just dark coolant could be something else. If the stuff is truly original who knows what it would look like after all these years.

The problem is it takes more work to check out the car with this possible intermix problem hanging over it.

Generally this intermix issue comes up from an owner of a car and the following is what one can do to try to nail down what is going on.

What one can do is take a sample of oil and have it analyzed for among other things the presence of any anti-freeze compounds in the oil. (And other things, scary things, too.)

Another thing would be to drain the coolant into a clean drain pan and let it sit overnight and look for signs oil in/on the coolant.

Generally though the above are things an owner does when he is trying to trouble shoot a possible problem. The above things are more work and cost more money for a prospective buyer to have done. You have the problem of a seller of a car probably not liking the idea of someone wrenching on the car before it is sold.

There has to be a number of candidate cars for sale and some should be better than this one.

It reads like you have sort of fallen in love with the first car you looked at. That is risky as sometimes the first car is not the right car. You need to look at a number of cars, possibly even some stinkers, car priced *low* and some even priced high to get a feel for what's out there.

As for the value of the car ignoring the specter of a possible intermix problem hanging over it you can visit www.nada.com, www.kbb.com (and there may be others) and punch in the car's numbers/details (option, miles, condition) and see what trade-in, private, retail sale numbers come up.

If the car is worth owning at all -- and that's not a given with the intermix question unanswered -- it is worth somewhere between the trade in value or as low as the seller is wiling to go and as high as someone is willing to pay.

You need to get some firm quotes on what it would take to address the known issues with the car: brakes; shifter; and even if the engine proves to not have an intermix problem I'd either have it done or set aside the funds to have the water pump/t-stat replaced cause I think the water pump will need doing probably come next spring; and factor the cost of these into your offer.

The rule of thumb is one should set aside 10% of the cost of a used car to have just in case something goes wrong. Even if the car manifests no issues, has been well taken care of (and this car maybe not so well taken care of) an issue can appear out of the blue. (My Boxster's a well cared for car and the water pump was fine for 172K miles then it wasn't. Just like that. Same for the fuel pump: Fine for around 200K miles, then it just up and quit. No warning.)

You want to avoid paying good money for a car in average to poor condition. At best the car is in average condition and I am being generous.

Chiamac

+1

Noticed that on my last oil change at a little over 5k miles. Old oil was clean, didn't smell, and if it wasn't for my changes happening every 5k miles on the odometer (75k, and 80k, next will be at 85k) I'd have no issues at all going out to 7500 or 10k miles per change.

Chiamac

Well that would explain the coolant color. Honestly, thinking out loud, let's say it did have coolant issues and there is mixing. The coolant would either be brand new as they would have just done a flush, or it would look like junk, or it would have been needed to be topped off all the time and appear newer. So sans any other symptoms I wouldn't really be swayed by this.

As far as the IMS, if the rest of the car was good no seller is going to really drop the price much for that - although getting into a car knowing that it's going to need $3k of work (USD) right off the bat for IMS and clutch may be a bit much for potential buyers.

The shifter may need to be replaced (I think?) with a different one or 997 model or rebuilt, which is a suggest upgrade anyway and not the end of the world.


I'd get this checked out, it could be worth (one of the rare times IMO) a good PPI and if it checks out would be at a great price for you.