20C4S

GT3 is here for a reason...

Konstantin

the Gt3 is a race car for teh street
the 996 powerkit is a steet car that can be taken to the track.
Big difference
and yes If you compare both and you want the same power and good track times the GT3 is MUCH cheaper.

exactly the oposite is with the 996TT and the GT2. the 996TT can be much faster for less money than you spend for a GT2

Konstantin

LAJ_996

ADOGNY

Please do not make that comparison again - that is just foolish..

ben in lj

"How do you know EVO's claims are accurate?"

dyno

"the went to 3.6 L for teh 320 HP but Evo needs just a airfilter or cold intake?
also for another 25 HP they spend $12000 other claims just a a filter and an exhaust?"

evo also uses tuning of the ecu. pre and post dynos are were run. just how much more can a tuner do to provide proof than a pre and post dyno? there will always be naysayers who have preconceived notions that they're unable to change.


"Also I get sick when i see all these HP loss of 17% oir waht ever. why is not possible to buy a really expensive dyno to check the TRUE engine HP as the factory all other factorys and Good Tuners do."

the 17% hp and 15% lb loss IS from a dyno. there was a baseline 996 used which showed 17% less rwhp and 15% less rwlb than advertised by porsche the crank.

"The test data from 0 to 125 mph that can be found in every good German magazin comapared both cars and the difference is there.
someone said it feels more like 40 HP and not only 25 more!"

porsche's own published dyno at the crank show it to indeed be only 25 more.

"There is NO WAY an x51 996 can even compare to a GT3 - street, track, or value. No shot... "

yep, it's a joke for anyone to compare an X51 996 to a gt3 on a performance basis.

ADOGNY

I knew a 996 owner would take offense to what I said... However, that was not an opinion - it is a fact. Drive both and you will see what I mean. I am far from an expert, but the difference can be seen and felt immediately, even by a novice like myself.

Ed Newman

I couldn't get a GT3 since I got my car a year ago so the X51 was my only choice. With alot of track time in it, I have to say it is FAST. It is probably closer to 360 hp that 345 hp. There is no loss of mid range torque and it revs much freer. I have driven it back to back with a std 3.6l and it is like going from a Honda to a Porsche. As for EVOs claims, maybe they can get peak HP up but it will give up alot somewhere else. Ask ANYONE who has driven an X51 and you will get the same response... WOW.

Keyvan

That actually makes a lot of sense. The powerkit gives you the 25 HP more or less across the enitre rpm range where as the cold air intake only gives you a power increase at a certain RPM which only spikes for a moment so you probably don't feel it.

A moment of Zen...

ben in lj

"where as the cold air intake only gives you a power increase at a certain RPM which only spikes for a moment so you probably don't feel it. "

where'd you see that? i'm guessing not from the actual dyno results at evoms.com (incidentally it's more than 25 hp cause as you can see the drivetrain loss is about 17% on the hp and 15% from porsche's advertised at the engine numbers):

Ed Newman

There are fundamental problems with testing this way. If you run dyno's on the same motor on different days, you can come up with different resutls, sometimes even alot. You need a second control car to do a better comparison.

Also keep in mind that the X51 does not have a cold air intake and in theory you would gain even more HP on the X51 car than the std car with this change as the restriction has more of an effect at a higher flow rate.

BTW, what does the EVO kit require fuel wise? I have seen a few ECU upgrades that will not run on anything shy of 94 octane, where as Porsche, even with the X51 will run peak at 92/93

ben in lj

"If you run dyno's on the same motor on different days, you can come up with different resutls, sometimes even alot."

a 4 day diff in the summer in arizona is not going to result in meaningful diffs. note too that both runs were within almost a 1/2 hour of being the same time of day.

"Also keep in mind that the X51 does not have a cold air intake and in theory you would gain even more HP on the X51 car than the std car with this change as the restriction has more of an effect at a higher flow rate."

of course, but what's your point? i think this thread revolves around Evo's $1590 solution relative to porsche's $13k + tax one. for that much cash, Evo will set your 996 up with power = to the 996TT.

"BTW, what does the EVO kit require fuel wise? I have seen a few ECU upgrades that will not run on anything shy of 94 octane, where as Porsche, even with the X51 will run peak at 92/93"

91

Ed Newman

Sounds great, how is that cold fusion project of yours coming?

Dyno the same motor a few times and you will come up with different results, been there done that already. Even differences in the fuel can add or remove a few horsepower quite easily.

The bottom line is I do not believe you can get 25 hp from the motor running on 91 octane with an intake and chip change and definielty not on the 3.6l motor, which is much more tuned to start with.

And this thread is about the X51 powerkit, not your EVO kit.

ben in lj

"Dyno the same motor a few times and you will come up with different results, been there done that already. Even differences in the fuel can add or remove a few horsepower quite easily. "

so i guess we can't believe ANY dynos - including porsche's on the X51. what an expensive investment if it's merely worthless.

"The bottom line is I do not believe you can get 25 hp from the motor running on 91 octane with an intake and chip change..."

yeah, no matter what the power measurement device says :-) funny everyone yaps about testing claims but whenever the claims ARE tested, the results are deemed bs. how can a reliable tuner with integrity ever win with such an argument?

"...and definielty not on the 3.6l motor, which is much more tuned to start with. "

it has a larger displacement and some vario cam diffs. i'm sure you can get the same if not MORE out of modifications to the 3.6. don't know about evoms.com supercharger as relates the 3.6 but TPC's was producing incremental results on the 3.4, 3.6, and 3.6 X51.

"And this thread is about the X51 powerkit, not your EVO kit."

it's not "my" kit, but you're right. i went back and looked and indeed it was me that started the evo discussion within the thread. sorry.

Ed Newman

Porsche is dynoing hundreds of engines on engine dyno's, not one on a chassis dyno.

There is alot more to improving performace that bigger motor will get more gains. There are ALOT of changes to the 3.6l and that is a big part of why it makes so much more hp and tq even in a base configuration.

I know you are proud of your kit, but do some more research and you may find some of what I am saying has merit. I have built numerous race motors from 1.5l to 8.8l and have achieved over 130hp per liter in some of them without forced induction. Do some more reading.

donnyj

I often read that the x51 kit has a greater BHP than it's stated 345. Has anybody / any magazine accurately tested it to see exactly what the bhp is cos those who have it say it's greater than 345 and GT3 owners/fan's say it's no where near there babys BHP. Can Porsche not shed some light on the subject as they designed it.

Donny J

caf

Ed,
You're right on. Every internet car board in the world has people making outrageous claims for their cars, but it's often the same story-- cold air intake and chip--BOOM, 25 extra hp! When some people started having doubts, the makers of these kits starting posting dynos. But it's FAR more complicated than that to prove their claims. And when INDEPENDENT dynos are done, using proper methodology, you can flip a coin as to whether there is any performance improvement at all.

Disclaimer: Aftermarket tuning of turbos is a different story. It's very possible to obtain significant increases in power with a re-map of the ECU at the expense of reliability/engine life.