When you pay for service work, what are you paying for? Part 2
03-17-2015, 09:49 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Cal
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When you pay for service work, what are you paying for? Part 2
How do I delete a thread? Someone pointed out this might be redundant with another thread and in retrospect he might be right.
-------
Scenario two (this and the other diagnostics story are both 100% true and presented as they happened. I was there and heard and saw it first hand so there are no "he said / she said" issues)
what do you think?
More than once, with this car but also with a BMW, other cars, similar situations: for example, the BMW had to go back to the dealer shop 4 times, each time with additional time and labour costs, to fix a bad headlamp that was bad again as soon as leaving the dealer service lot -
Anyway, with this particular car, a Lamborghini, within the past few months, this Lamborghini was brought in for a check engine light and starting issue - only 1 bank of 6 cylinders (out of two banks / 12 cylinders) would fire up, and only after 45sec to 5 minutes would the second bank fire up and the tach "wake up."
Clearly there are electronics gremlins ...
So 3 months and a $10,000 bill later (admittedly only $6000 of the $10,000 bill were related to diagnosis and work related to the check engine light and start up problem)
Upon picking up the car the check engine light and start up was slightly better but not completely fixed, and this was noted by the shop owner himself.
Admittedly Italian electronics, especially in earlier exotics, was always "interesting" but doesn't a bill and release of the vehicle imply work was done, correctly, which "corrects" the problem the work was for?
Well, driving the Lambo home (about 50 miles) and shutting it off, the next day, the check engine light and start up problem was worse than before it went in (and $6000 billable work earlier) - the second bank doesn't come on at at all now, even after 10+ minutes; the check engine light never goes off (it would before when the second bank lit up) and on top, the adaptive suspension now shows an error.
So what do you think? Not necessarily about the specific electrical or mechanical issues, but about the more general topic of shop work that leaves the car issues the same or worse than before it went in.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or comments.
ps: I am familiar with the old joke, "I brought the car in for a brake job, and now the head lights don't work. WHAT DID YOU DO?"
These situations are NOT like that old joke ...
-------
Scenario two (this and the other diagnostics story are both 100% true and presented as they happened. I was there and heard and saw it first hand so there are no "he said / she said" issues)
what do you think?
More than once, with this car but also with a BMW, other cars, similar situations: for example, the BMW had to go back to the dealer shop 4 times, each time with additional time and labour costs, to fix a bad headlamp that was bad again as soon as leaving the dealer service lot -
Anyway, with this particular car, a Lamborghini, within the past few months, this Lamborghini was brought in for a check engine light and starting issue - only 1 bank of 6 cylinders (out of two banks / 12 cylinders) would fire up, and only after 45sec to 5 minutes would the second bank fire up and the tach "wake up."
Clearly there are electronics gremlins ...
So 3 months and a $10,000 bill later (admittedly only $6000 of the $10,000 bill were related to diagnosis and work related to the check engine light and start up problem)
Upon picking up the car the check engine light and start up was slightly better but not completely fixed, and this was noted by the shop owner himself.
Admittedly Italian electronics, especially in earlier exotics, was always "interesting" but doesn't a bill and release of the vehicle imply work was done, correctly, which "corrects" the problem the work was for?
Well, driving the Lambo home (about 50 miles) and shutting it off, the next day, the check engine light and start up problem was worse than before it went in (and $6000 billable work earlier) - the second bank doesn't come on at at all now, even after 10+ minutes; the check engine light never goes off (it would before when the second bank lit up) and on top, the adaptive suspension now shows an error.
So what do you think? Not necessarily about the specific electrical or mechanical issues, but about the more general topic of shop work that leaves the car issues the same or worse than before it went in.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or comments.
ps: I am familiar with the old joke, "I brought the car in for a brake job, and now the head lights don't work. WHAT DID YOU DO?"
These situations are NOT like that old joke ...
Last edited by WanderingPurist; 03-17-2015 at 10:58 PM. Reason: How to delete thread?
03-17-2015, 10:26 PM
#2
If it was me I wouldn't have left the first time knowing it still wasn't fixed. If it happened the next day I would have stopped payment on the check or my AMEX card. They would have to fix it before getting paid. A reputable shop would not expect you to pay if they couldn't fix it unless they told you in advance that you must pay even if it does not get fixed. In that case I would not have let them start.
03-17-2015, 10:29 PM
#3
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Cal
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JD Arthur - that's the way I'm leaning, thinking back, hence my asking.
Maybe my friend is too used to "sly uncatchable gremlins" with his Lambos and Ferraris and so figures payment is due even when work that supposedly fixes a problem the car went in for, didn't. but to me, like as you described, it just seems wrong.
Thanks for the sanity check.
Thanks for the sanity check.
If it was me I wouldn't have left the first time knowing it still wasn't fixed. If it happened the next day I would have stopped payment on the check or my AMEX card. They would have to fix it before getting paid. A reputable shop would not expect you to pay if they couldn't fix it unless they told you in advance that you must pay even if it does not get fixed. In that case I would not have let them start.
03-18-2015, 01:03 AM
#4
Race Director
It is a good habit to get into when picking up a car to assume one will have to leave the car. Give the car a good going over to make sure it looks ok and then give the car a test drive, a mini shake down drive to verify the car runs ok and the problem is not present. One has to allow time for this. Showing up at closing time doesn't leave one any time to test the car and return it.
If one accepts the car with the problem still present this says to the shop the customer is willing to accept the car with the problem still present. This makes the odds of the problem not being fixed the next time even higher.
While it is a big gun -- least the one time I had to use it -- mention BAR (in CA at least) if the shop appears to have not done a proper job.
One is owed a reasonable degree of skill, experience, and care of the car when having his car worked on. It is not like one dropped the Lambo off at the local vacuum repair shop instead of at the Lambo repair shop. The shop advertises as being a Lambo shop and it can't take on a job, charge for it, and not fix it or make it worse. In doing this the shop has broken its part of the "contract" that was created when it accepted the car. This is fraud and I have no problem calling up the county's division of consumer fraud or the BAR if I believe I've been defrauded.
I don't pay my car repair bills with Monopoly Money and I am not taking a crummy wash job for a repair job in return.
If one accepts the car with the problem still present this says to the shop the customer is willing to accept the car with the problem still present. This makes the odds of the problem not being fixed the next time even higher.
While it is a big gun -- least the one time I had to use it -- mention BAR (in CA at least) if the shop appears to have not done a proper job.
One is owed a reasonable degree of skill, experience, and care of the car when having his car worked on. It is not like one dropped the Lambo off at the local vacuum repair shop instead of at the Lambo repair shop. The shop advertises as being a Lambo shop and it can't take on a job, charge for it, and not fix it or make it worse. In doing this the shop has broken its part of the "contract" that was created when it accepted the car. This is fraud and I have no problem calling up the county's division of consumer fraud or the BAR if I believe I've been defrauded.
I don't pay my car repair bills with Monopoly Money and I am not taking a crummy wash job for a repair job in return.
03-18-2015, 02:27 AM
#5
Pro
It is a good habit to get into when picking up a car to assume one will have to leave the car. Give the car a good going over to make sure it looks ok and then give the car a test drive, a mini shake down drive to verify the car runs ok and the problem is not present. One has to allow time for this. Showing up at closing time doesn't leave one any time to test the car and return it.
If one accepts the car with the problem still present this says to the shop the customer is willing to accept the car with the problem still present. This makes the odds of the problem not being fixed the next time even higher.
While it is a big gun -- least the one time I had to use it -- mention BAR (in CA at least) if the shop appears to have not done a proper job.
One is owed a reasonable degree of skill, experience, and care of the car when having his car worked on. It is not like one dropped the Lambo off at the local vacuum repair shop instead of at the Lambo repair shop. The shop advertises as being a Lambo shop and it can't take on a job, charge for it, and not fix it or make it worse. In doing this the shop has broken its part of the "contract" that was created when it accepted the car. This is fraud and I have no problem calling up the county's division of consumer fraud or the BAR if I believe I've been defrauded.
I don't pay my car repair bills with Monopoly Money and I am not taking a crummy wash job for a repair job in return.
If one accepts the car with the problem still present this says to the shop the customer is willing to accept the car with the problem still present. This makes the odds of the problem not being fixed the next time even higher.
While it is a big gun -- least the one time I had to use it -- mention BAR (in CA at least) if the shop appears to have not done a proper job.
One is owed a reasonable degree of skill, experience, and care of the car when having his car worked on. It is not like one dropped the Lambo off at the local vacuum repair shop instead of at the Lambo repair shop. The shop advertises as being a Lambo shop and it can't take on a job, charge for it, and not fix it or make it worse. In doing this the shop has broken its part of the "contract" that was created when it accepted the car. This is fraud and I have no problem calling up the county's division of consumer fraud or the BAR if I believe I've been defrauded.
I don't pay my car repair bills with Monopoly Money and I am not taking a crummy wash job for a repair job in return.
03-18-2015, 03:43 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
A fool and his money are soon parted. The problem isn't the car or the mechanic, the problem is an owner who tolerates this sort of situation implicitly or explicitly.