Ahsai

Ok, can you remove the starter relay and the (thinner) wire to the solenoid, then check continuity between pin 87 of the relay socket and that wire at the solenoid end? Also check if the wire is short to ground. That wire connects the relay pin 87 to the solenoid to power it so by disconnecting the relay and the solenoid end, you make that wire float so you can do those checks.

If that wire is shorted to ground, that will explain the symptoms you described.

Then put the jumper in but leave the solenoid side disconnected, crank and see if the jumper gets hot.

johnireland

Your father is a wise man. Take it to a dealer and let factory trained technicians do what they are trained to do...get your car back on the road as quickly as possible.

There are many here who gain some therapeutic benefit from spending days and weeks crawling through the guts of their car in search of mysterious electronic gremlins. This is a form of masochistic meditation and not to be confused with classical DYI issues such as change the oil and brake pads...or even rebuilding the entire engine.

I myself prefer driving the car as much as possible and when something breaks, paying a trained expert to fix it.

EEES

Ahsai, thank you for all of your input throughout this process. We're going to do the isolation test on Tuesday. I will be crossing my fingers, and if that doesn't work, I will ship it off to the "stealer".

John, you're so correct. There is a difference between doing routine maintenance and tracking down a gremlin. It just sucks when you create the gremlin. 😁

EEES

We do have continuity between pin 87 and the starter solenoid. We tested continuity between pin 30 and pin 87 and there is none. The relay is toast.

But did the relay just wear out, or was it because of too much resistance? That may explain why the relay jumper became red-hot within seconds of turning the key. The old starter was causing the car to crank over and over before starting, and eventually I wouldn't even start. When I had a friend jump the car, he had to rev his car to 3000 RPM to get my car to start even though my battery was just tested and charged. hmmm....

I have a feeling that the starter that I just bought is bad, as well as the original one. Even though Auto zone shows that both pass, there is a short to ground at the positive 12 V starter solenoid post.

Sooo....do I need to get a new starter and a new relay?

Ahsai

That's good.

When the relay is not energized, there should not be continuity between pin 30 and 87 of the relay. Did you try to energize the relay? If you did and there's no continuity between pin 30 and 87, your relay is toast for sure.

Did you check if the wire (after removed from the solenoid) is shorted to ground?

The internal resistance of the starter solenoid is only 0.1 to 0.2 Ohm so it may appear it's shorted to ground. Can you remove the relay and jump pin 87 and 30 with a thicker wire like awg16? Maybe the safety pin didn't allow enough current to power the solenoid.

EEES

Is it supposed to be zero ohms between that pin and the case. Because that's what we have.

Correction: it's very close to zero, but it's not zero.

Ahsai

No, it's supposed to be very low but not 0.00 Ohm. I don't remember the exact number but I can check tonight when I'm home. I have a spare (but working) starter given to me by sjg1138.

EEES

Okay. Point one or two is close to what we have. That's good. A relay could make it work.

EEES

You don't have to go to all the trouble checking that. I can't thank you enough for all your help so far.

Ahsai

Yes, if you put 12v on pin 85 and 86 (polarity doesn't matter), the relay clicks and you got an open between pin 87 and 30, your relay is bad for sure.

EEES

We did energize the relay out of the car. It pulled it but no continuity between 30 and 87. It pulled "in".

Let's put the starter back in and get a good relay. Should be good to go.

BTW, no short to ground on pin 87.

Ahsai

No worries as it's very easy anyway. I'll let you know as I'm curious myself too

EEES

Thank you. I will definitely let you know.

Ahsai

Since you have the starter out, you can bench test it if you're comfortable trying. All you need is a pair of jumper cables to connect the starter to a car battery, then use another wire (e.g., 16awg) to apply +12v to the solenoid, the starter should spin with gusto.

Just be very careful dealing with the hot cables and make sure you hold the starter tight before putting power to the solenoid (sparks will fly).

EEES

Raw power! The starter flies and the Bendix gear pops out. I take it back to AutoZone and add them retested on the bench. That way it was covered in a protective case

Ordering the relay now. I should order "new" to prevent any more possible issues down the road.