RMS problem......THE UPDATE
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,565
Likes: 1
From: Liverpool, England
RMS problem......THE UPDATE
Here's the update as promised....
PUK have agreed to replace the RMS under their goodwill system.
Except that they will only contribute to half the labour cost. Have you
every such crap! The seal is provided free (woopyfreakindo!). The
gearbox, they said is my own problem. They won't uphold any
responsibility to the cost of it. They acknowledge that it is unfortunate
that the car has only done 28,238 miles and that it has a FPSH and
that it has never been tracked but there is nothing more they can offer.
Wait....it gets better.....
So, in the last few days you may have seen my postings, looking for a
gearbox replacement...sort or preempting the inevitable. Well I found one
and it's local and its off a car that's only done 1500 miles in a wreckers
yard and I can get it for £1000. So I say to the service manager at Porsche,
OK how much will it cost me to have you guys fit a gearbox if I sourced
one myself, and taking into consideration that you will have the job half
boxed off anyway because your doing my RMS, which means the gearbox
is out. I.e. throw my old one away and put the new one in while doing the RMS.
His answer: Sorry sir, we only fit Porsche approved parts.
Me: Errr hello! this is a Porsche 996 gearbox. Can it not be any
more Porsche approved than that. I mean Porsche manufactured it!
His answer: Sorry sir, we can only fit Porsche approved parts that
come from our parts department.
Me: well it didn't come from Woolworth's. It must have come from
Porsche's parts department originally. I wonder if Dr. Ing F. Porsche would
say that it isn't Porsche approved.
His answer: Sorry sir, we can only fit Porsche approved parts that
come from our parts department and from our parts inventory. It's company
policy.
So I contacted my lawyer. Wouldn't you?
He said bluntly. I have not got a leg to stand on. The car is out of
warranty. Anything Porsche do for me is now purely out of their
own good will. They are not legally obliged to do anything....including
the RMS at half labour cost.
Can't wait to see your comments on all this......any suggestions what I
should do next?
Berny
PUK have agreed to replace the RMS under their goodwill system.
Except that they will only contribute to half the labour cost. Have you
every such crap! The seal is provided free (woopyfreakindo!). The
gearbox, they said is my own problem. They won't uphold any
responsibility to the cost of it. They acknowledge that it is unfortunate
that the car has only done 28,238 miles and that it has a FPSH and
that it has never been tracked but there is nothing more they can offer.
Wait....it gets better.....
So, in the last few days you may have seen my postings, looking for a
gearbox replacement...sort or preempting the inevitable. Well I found one
and it's local and its off a car that's only done 1500 miles in a wreckers
yard and I can get it for £1000. So I say to the service manager at Porsche,
OK how much will it cost me to have you guys fit a gearbox if I sourced
one myself, and taking into consideration that you will have the job half
boxed off anyway because your doing my RMS, which means the gearbox
is out. I.e. throw my old one away and put the new one in while doing the RMS.
His answer: Sorry sir, we only fit Porsche approved parts.
Me: Errr hello! this is a Porsche 996 gearbox. Can it not be any
more Porsche approved than that. I mean Porsche manufactured it!
His answer: Sorry sir, we can only fit Porsche approved parts that
come from our parts department.
Me: well it didn't come from Woolworth's. It must have come from
Porsche's parts department originally. I wonder if Dr. Ing F. Porsche would
say that it isn't Porsche approved.
His answer: Sorry sir, we can only fit Porsche approved parts that
come from our parts department and from our parts inventory. It's company
policy.
So I contacted my lawyer. Wouldn't you?
He said bluntly. I have not got a leg to stand on. The car is out of
warranty. Anything Porsche do for me is now purely out of their
own good will. They are not legally obliged to do anything....including
the RMS at half labour cost.
Can't wait to see your comments on all this......any suggestions what I
should do next?
Berny
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,077
Likes: 245
From: North Eastern US
Boy, sounds like tough luck, Berny.
I guess if you follow things to the letter, the dealership IS right. You are out of warranty, and anything they give you is "goodwill". I would not go up the Porsche ladder, as they will usually support the dealership unless it's an outright absurdity on the dealer's part. Take you lawyer's advice.
About the gearbox. The way I understand the stand of the dealership is that they will only replace with NEW Porsche parts. They have to give some sort of work guarantee, so they want new parts. Or at least parts that they can certify to you as good. Will they agree to do the replacement with the gearbox you sourced if you agree that any defect that comes after the replacement was due to a faulty replacement gearbox that you sourced and that they are not liable?
Just my 0.02 cents. I sincerely hope it works out for you.
I guess if you follow things to the letter, the dealership IS right. You are out of warranty, and anything they give you is "goodwill". I would not go up the Porsche ladder, as they will usually support the dealership unless it's an outright absurdity on the dealer's part. Take you lawyer's advice.
About the gearbox. The way I understand the stand of the dealership is that they will only replace with NEW Porsche parts. They have to give some sort of work guarantee, so they want new parts. Or at least parts that they can certify to you as good. Will they agree to do the replacement with the gearbox you sourced if you agree that any defect that comes after the replacement was due to a faulty replacement gearbox that you sourced and that they are not liable?
Just my 0.02 cents. I sincerely hope it works out for you.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA
Well you're screwed on the warranty part but why don't you find a different dealer to install the used gearbox and do the RMS for you? If porsche is paying for it any dealer can do it. And by the way this dealership sounds like it's run by a real bunch of bastards, find your UK equivalent of the Better business bureau, trash them by word of mouth as much as you can, and never do business with them again.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Hi Berny,
very tricky situation. I guess you've got a number of options:
1) As PUK have authorised the repair, it doesn't matter at which Porsche Centre you have the RMS replaced. You could ask around a few Porsche Centres and see if they would fit a gearbox supplied by you. Unfortunately, I think it's unlikely that anyone will do it.
2) Go to an independent Porsche specialist and have the RMS fixed and gearbox replaced. The cost for the RMS is a tenner (a bit more if they also have to seal the camdrive) and since an independent Porsche specialist has lower hourly rates, the difference in cost to you might be quite small.
One big problem with this option: There are some M96/01 engines (that's the one you've got) where changing the RMS won't cure the problem. The reason is that on those engines the crankshaft and the seat for the RMS are not concentric. Porsche centres have a gauge for that and if the eccentricity is more than 0.3mm then Porsche replace the whole engine under their goodwill system. Obviously, the Specialist won't be able to check that nor will they get a new engine off Porsche. Also, setting the RMS without the proper tool is a bit tricky. The Independents will all say they know how to do it, but believe me it's not that straightforward.
3) Have the RMS fixed at the Porsche Centre and the old gearbox put back in. You'll have to pay for three or four hours of labour. Then go to an independent and have the gearbox changed. Takes about four hours, because they won't have to take the flywheel off.
Cheers,
Uwe
PS: I hope the breaker is VERY reputable, because if the gearbox has something wrong with it, you're really up s*** creek. I've just seen too many gearboxes with one careful lady owner.
very tricky situation. I guess you've got a number of options:
1) As PUK have authorised the repair, it doesn't matter at which Porsche Centre you have the RMS replaced. You could ask around a few Porsche Centres and see if they would fit a gearbox supplied by you. Unfortunately, I think it's unlikely that anyone will do it.
2) Go to an independent Porsche specialist and have the RMS fixed and gearbox replaced. The cost for the RMS is a tenner (a bit more if they also have to seal the camdrive) and since an independent Porsche specialist has lower hourly rates, the difference in cost to you might be quite small.
One big problem with this option: There are some M96/01 engines (that's the one you've got) where changing the RMS won't cure the problem. The reason is that on those engines the crankshaft and the seat for the RMS are not concentric. Porsche centres have a gauge for that and if the eccentricity is more than 0.3mm then Porsche replace the whole engine under their goodwill system. Obviously, the Specialist won't be able to check that nor will they get a new engine off Porsche. Also, setting the RMS without the proper tool is a bit tricky. The Independents will all say they know how to do it, but believe me it's not that straightforward.
3) Have the RMS fixed at the Porsche Centre and the old gearbox put back in. You'll have to pay for three or four hours of labour. Then go to an independent and have the gearbox changed. Takes about four hours, because they won't have to take the flywheel off.
Cheers,
Uwe
PS: I hope the breaker is VERY reputable, because if the gearbox has something wrong with it, you're really up s*** creek. I've just seen too many gearboxes with one careful lady owner.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,874
Likes: 300
From: san francisco
Scouser-other then the whining noise from 1st/2nd-do you sense other tranny related symptoms like popping out of gear etc..? By the way I think it really blows with how the dealership handled this. I would move on to another who can treat you better but I think you'll still need to pay something out of pocket wherever you'll go. Regards and good luck. Mike
Menace to Society
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,527
Likes: 4
From: Glendale, CA
I would go for umn's 3rd option.
That way if the engine crankshaft and seat are not concentric, you get a new engine, and then get the cheaper labor for the gearbox change.
That way if the engine crankshaft and seat are not concentric, you get a new engine, and then get the cheaper labor for the gearbox change.
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Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
From: Pennsylvania
I would recommend going with the dealership. Not necessarily the one you are working with though. I just don't feel comfortable with an independent and they may not have the necessary tools and if it isn't done correctly the first time they may give you a bad time. Also the engine replacement comes into play, if necessary. From what I understand, a Porsche certified Tech must complete a very difficult set of training courses to become certified and only the top scorers attain certification. I, too am waiting for a diagnosis on my 99 oil leak which is also out of warranty. From the posts I have read it appears to be the RMS. I cannot get it to the dealer for another week or two. Did you happen to get a quote on the cost for the RMS only? No one here on the list seems to know offhand. I guess most replacements are done under warranty.
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,565
Likes: 1
From: Liverpool, England
Hi guys,
Thanks everyone for all your comments and feedback. Uwe, option 3 is the way to go but......
PUK have now agreed to look into the possibility of doing the gearbox under their goodwill scheme.
The car goes into have the RMS done next week.
I will keep y'all posted on the outcome of the gearbox.....or in fact possible new engine if the RMS goes wrong :-)
Imagine that. new engine and gearbox....am I dreaming?
Thanks everyone for all your comments and feedback. Uwe, option 3 is the way to go but......
PUK have now agreed to look into the possibility of doing the gearbox under their goodwill scheme.
The car goes into have the RMS done next week.
I will keep y'all posted on the outcome of the gearbox.....or in fact possible new engine if the RMS goes wrong :-)
Imagine that. new engine and gearbox....am I dreaming?
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,565
Likes: 1
From: Liverpool, England
Oh yes 996 Aero, the RMS is about an 8 hour job according to the service engineer at the dealer. But he said sometimes it can be longer. Sorry man but that's what he said....
