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Old 07-31-2014 | 03:16 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by dereko
I reckon I am getting fuel smell from exhaust when cranking.

Silly question, but step me through procedure for checking spark, as each plug has its own coil pack, I'm unsure what to check; last car being an old 80's air cooled 911
You can remove any one of the coils and use a spark plug tester similar to this http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=10257_0_0_
Old 08-04-2014 | 01:24 AM
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OK. Here is where I am up to

I have removed the battery and the access panel above the fuel pump.

Put car battery on floor and powered car up with Heavy Duty 600 amp jump start cables.

Removed power connector off fuel pump, put multimeter in 2 outside terminals (brown wire and green/white stripe)

Turning the ignition key to ON position, no power to fuel pump connector

Turning key to START position 12V supplied to connector

I thought the pump was supposed to get a few seconds priming on the ON position first ?

Should I try and apply 12V direct to pump before I plonk down $600 for a new pump?

Confirming I have the correct terminals, 2 outside ones (2 inner ones look a very light wire guage, I assume these are the level sender?)
Old 08-04-2014 | 01:31 AM
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All you did was right and the pump is supposed to prime for about 2 seconds if you leave the key at the last position before cranking. Why don't you just jump the pump itself (bring the connections outside of the pump area and make sure brown wire is negative). You should hear the pump spinning if it's working.

Btw, you can also measure the resistance of the pump and see if it's open circuit inside. It should have very low resistance.
Old 08-04-2014 | 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ahsai
All you did was right and the pump is supposed to prime for about 2 seconds if you leave the key at the last position before cranking. Why don't you just jump the pump itself (bring the connections outside of the pump area and make sure brown wire is negative). You should hear the pump spinning if it's working.

Btw, you can also measure the resistance of the pump and see if it's open circuit inside. It should have very low resistance.
Pump Measures 0.7 ohms across 2 outside terminals, which seems very close to a short,
Old 08-04-2014 | 02:04 AM
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What would be causing the 2 second prime not to occur?
Old 08-04-2014 | 02:15 AM
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0.7ohm may be ok. Can you try using Durametric to activate it again now that you can definitely hear the pump? I just tried it with key turned to last position then activate the pump using Durametric. I can hear it clearly at the driver's seat. No way you can't hear it when it's spinning
Old 08-04-2014 | 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ahsai
0.7ohm may be ok. Can you try using Durametric to activate it again now that you can definitely hear the pump? I just tried it with key turned to last position then activate the pump using Durametric. I can hear it clearly at the driver's seat. No way you can't hear it when it's spinning
Hooked up the Durametric

Tried starting fuel pump final stage with Durametric, can't hear pump even up close. Can definitely hear fuel relay switching on.

Pulled fuel pump connector off, measured voltage with MultiMeter. and turned on again with Durametric, its definitely getting a switched 12V supply at the Fuel pump connector, so I think its pointing to a dead fuel pump.

I did get a "fuel level sender faulty error drive to workshop" after plugging fuel pump connector back on, which I guess could be normal, but it doesn't show any errors logged in the Durametric fault codes still after refreshing it.

Only bit miffing me is why I'm not getting 2 second priming voltage when ignition first turned on.
Old 08-04-2014 | 03:59 AM
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I have seen the 2s priming sometimes don't occur and I speculate that the DME may have some logic triggering it based on things such as last time engine was run, ignition was on, and what not. The fact that you get power to the connector and the pump still not running does point to a failed pump. To be 100% sure, you can plug in any car incandescent bulb (anything less than 80w) say a brake light bulb to substitute for the fuel pump and see if the bulb lights up when you activate the pump with Durametric. That will tell you the circuit can supply enough current. Then supply power directly to the pump and hear if it spins. That will tell you if the pump is bad. The pump sounds just like a windshield washer pump so you can't miss it if it's spinning.
Old 08-04-2014 | 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ahsai
I have seen the 2s priming sometimes don't occur and I speculate that the DME may have some logic triggering it based on things such as last time engine was run, ignition was on, and what not. The fact that you get power to the connector and the pump still not running does point to a failed pump. To be 100% sure, you can plug in any car incandescent bulb (anything less than 80w) say a brake light bulb to substitute for the fuel pump and see if the bulb lights up when you activate the pump with Durametric. That will tell you the circuit can supply enough current. Then supply power directly to the pump and hear if it spins. That will tell you if the pump is bad. The pump sounds just like a windshield washer pump so you can't miss it if it's spinning.
I have tried supplying power direct to the pump, no sound or vibrations

It does try to weld the wires onto the terminal, so I'm sure its drawing current, maybe a shorted turn in the motor windings I guess.

I guess I should now remove pump from fuel tank and do a final test on bench before buying a new pump, in case its something weird like a failed connector between top connector and the internal one on pump itself
Old 08-04-2014 | 04:29 AM
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That's the logical way to proceed. However, I do not know a safe way to bench test the fuel pump unless you can ensure all the fuel inside the pump has been drained. Not a whole lot but still a hazard. Without being submerged in the fuel, the brushes inside the pump (being a simple dc brush motor) will creat sparks. Just be careful.
Old 08-04-2014 | 04:46 AM
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Any ideas on why there is no fault codes stored on a dead fuel pump?

Maybe because last time car ran it started properly , drove fine, parked it in garage, and pump mysteriously died whilst parked?

Spoke to a Indy Porsche Mechanic, his theory was moisture/condensation can build up and sit at bottom of tank as car wasn't driven for months and pump is at the bottom sitting in moisture and corrodes and seizes up.

Car has only done 60,000km, so an early death for a fuel pump
Old 08-04-2014 | 04:58 AM
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There are no sensors monitoring the fuel pump (or fuel pressure) as strange as it may sound. Also the DME is not directly supplying power to it (it's via the pump relay), not like the fuel injectors that it can monitor the current drawn and flag the corresponding error codes.

Btw, the pump is not cheap but it's less than $600 though http://www.ecstuning.com/ES1494742/

The moisture theory sounds plausible. You can do a postmortem on the pump and find out how it failed.
Old 08-04-2014 | 05:21 AM
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That does sound bizarre (no monitoring) considering how important and basic fuel is in a car !!

I'm not sure if ECS ship outside USA, I'm in Australia, so $600 is a local price here and I shopped around, we are used to a bit of price gouging down under

I'll contact ECS and find out, as that's even cheaper than Pelican (who do ship to Australia)

Will keep you posted when I get the pump out and dissect it

Thanks' for all the advice and help so far BTW
Old 08-04-2014 | 06:11 AM
  #29  
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Hey, glad to help out here. Re monitoring, it's probably a cost issue since fuel pump failure is not that common and also it's straight forward to diagnose, not like those mysterious misfires.

Oh yeah, I forgot you're in Australia. I must admit parts are cheaper in US compared to other countries. I do agree that the mileage is very low for the pump to fail. Look forward to what you find.
Old 08-06-2014 | 04:33 AM
  #30  
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OK, Post Mortem in progress

Pump now removed from Tank, no physical signs of damage, no cracked hoses or casing, water etc

Setup pump up outdoors and connected some 3 metre leads, powered her up with battery, zippo, nothing, but did notice some vapour coming out of vent holes on top of pump motor

Left it for a few minutes, went and checked it, and internal metal motor pump housing quite warm, so i would say my initial thoughts of a shorted turn in the windings is probably the cause

Good news is, pump removal was really easy, had it out in 5-10 minutes after taking battery and cover off the other day, have left half a tank of fuel in tank, as couldn't drain with pump not working, as it came out so easy I don't think refitting new one will be too hard


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