C4S or turbo?
10-15-2013, 11:00 AM
#16
Race Director
Well, my opinion would be if I knew then what I know now my first 911 would have probably been a nice very basic 996. No S. No 4S. No Turbo. Lightly optioned. Cruise, OBC, auto climate control. Done.
My thinking is based on my base Boxster having been a great car over the 11 years and 273K miles and needing relatively little in the way of repairs.
Low cost to buy. Low cost to drive. Low cost to maintain. I mean low cost from a Porsche point of view.
The Turbo has been a good car. Not a great car, though, given the cost of keeping it not only serviced but taking care of the too many in my book things that have gone wrong.
Out of CPO warranty (which ended in June of 2011 with around 60K miles on the car) the power steering tank (and valve) needed to be replaced. $1K. Spoiler: $2200. RMS: $1700. Water pump, T-stat, driver's side radiator fan motor, and front diff axle flange seals: $3900. Couple of batteries. (Not the car's fault, just crappy batteries.) Several flats and at least one flat required I buy a new tire to match the flat tire which was replaced thanks to a road hazard warranty. Now the Boxster has had flat tires too but the Boxster tires are cheap compared to what it costs to tire up the Turbo.
The Turbo now has just over 113K miles.
The Turbo is a nice car. I like the solid feel of the car. I like the extra cabin space. I like the better view out of the car. The power is intoxicating. The Mezger engine essentially worry free.
However, I do not like the higher cost of keeping the car on the road. I know the car's a $120K car but I never dreamed it would have more problems and at a lower number of miles than the Boxster.
The Fins made a great car when they made that Boxster.
The Germans kind of dropped the ball when they made the Turbo. At least mine.
My thinking is based on my base Boxster having been a great car over the 11 years and 273K miles and needing relatively little in the way of repairs.
Low cost to buy. Low cost to drive. Low cost to maintain. I mean low cost from a Porsche point of view.
The Turbo has been a good car. Not a great car, though, given the cost of keeping it not only serviced but taking care of the too many in my book things that have gone wrong.
Out of CPO warranty (which ended in June of 2011 with around 60K miles on the car) the power steering tank (and valve) needed to be replaced. $1K. Spoiler: $2200. RMS: $1700. Water pump, T-stat, driver's side radiator fan motor, and front diff axle flange seals: $3900. Couple of batteries. (Not the car's fault, just crappy batteries.) Several flats and at least one flat required I buy a new tire to match the flat tire which was replaced thanks to a road hazard warranty. Now the Boxster has had flat tires too but the Boxster tires are cheap compared to what it costs to tire up the Turbo.
The Turbo now has just over 113K miles.
The Turbo is a nice car. I like the solid feel of the car. I like the extra cabin space. I like the better view out of the car. The power is intoxicating. The Mezger engine essentially worry free.
However, I do not like the higher cost of keeping the car on the road. I know the car's a $120K car but I never dreamed it would have more problems and at a lower number of miles than the Boxster.
The Fins made a great car when they made that Boxster.
The Germans kind of dropped the ball when they made the Turbo. At least mine.
10-15-2013, 11:02 AM
#17
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it has been done he is a certified ln engineering installer plus rms clutch, plugs and coils done and all fluids replaced.
10-15-2013, 11:37 AM
#19
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Macaster
Out of your costs outlines above, the only item different from a NA 996 is the hydraulic spoiler which can go bad. All other wear items also apply to 996s so its a poor argument. I would replace $2,000 spoiler all day long instead of calling Jake Raby.
Out of your costs outlines above, the only item different from a NA 996 is the hydraulic spoiler which can go bad. All other wear items also apply to 996s so its a poor argument. I would replace $2,000 spoiler all day long instead of calling Jake Raby.
10-15-2013, 11:40 AM
#20
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Well the 2 cars I'm narrowing it down to is 04 c4s 32k all service done it's basically perfect all the options for around $39 local I know everyone says it's high but it's that nice & it's begin sold from a trusted mechanic. The other is 01 turbo 36k with nav & CDs changer. It's in NC the best price is $45. Got a ppi all good and 30k service done. Another ? Is a tip that bad I found one local wasn't interested but maybe for right price. And is the year that much of an issue since the c4s is 3 years newer. Thanks for all the input
An 01 turbo will not have a glove box. Make sure you are OK with just the side pockets. Also check for a 2nd gear pop out during your test drive or PPI. Basically a 2nd gear decel and see if it stays in gear. There is a cheap 2nd gear detent part you can mod from gbox.
Other that that, look for the options and make sure you are happy with them..
10-15-2013, 12:27 PM
#21
Pro
) Either way, the decision is a good problem to have
10-15-2013, 12:41 PM
#22
Race Director
The NA 996 clutch system is unboosted and much simpler and based on my experience with my Boxster and my Turbo, better.
The Boxster's clutch hardware is original with 273K miles. The Turbo needed a new clutch accumulator and slave cylinder, though these were covered under warranty.
The power steering valve issue is a Turbo only issue IIRC.
The NA 996 spoiler system is simpler and based on my Boxster experience a lot more robust. The Turbo's spoiler failed at around 110K miles. The Boxster's is working just fine at 273K miles. Well, check that. Recently the spoiler light has been coming on and the spoiler remains up even after I shut off the engine but I think the problem is a switch and not a $2K spoiler hydraulic system.
The Turbo is a nice car but it is a lot of car. This applies to not only the good - the engine -- but the bad: the more complex clutch boost system, the AWD, the spoiler, the fuel system, the extra work to get at the plugs/coils and other areas/regions of the engine for servicing.
Oh, do not forget the Turbo engine has those epoxied coolant hose fittings that can fail and require an engine out to fix (weld).
Given what I know now vs. what I knew then I might have still bought the Turbo, but I might have looked a bit harder for a nice plain jane NA 996 and had I gone this way banked the difference in costs.
10-15-2013, 12:56 PM
#23
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Thanks everyone with all the help. I really appreciate it I a moving up from a 07 corvette & I had a budget but I got caught up in the c4s vs. turbo originally I was looking at c2 & c4s in my budget but started looking at cars out of my budget & trying to stretch a little. I buy cars often so I thought the turbo would stop that but I know it will not. I agree I would rather buy a car from a guy I trust. He has 01 turbo but it's a tip I'm not a fan of autos(wife can't drive it) but is it that bad? Thanks again
10-15-2013, 02:07 PM
#24
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Macster
This is a thread on C4S vs Turbo. Yes there is a clutch slave accumulator on a turbo that a NA does not have which can go bad. Other than that, AWD components are the same.
Yes the turbo is a more expensive car and will have other little things that may go wrong. The point is that a buy today on a 996 turbo is a better value than a 996 C2. You bought your turbo when it was still depreciating so you ate a chunk of it. There is not much downside on a 996 turbo or a GT3 in today's pricing.
This is a thread on C4S vs Turbo. Yes there is a clutch slave accumulator on a turbo that a NA does not have which can go bad. Other than that, AWD components are the same.
Yes the turbo is a more expensive car and will have other little things that may go wrong. The point is that a buy today on a 996 turbo is a better value than a 996 C2. You bought your turbo when it was still depreciating so you ate a chunk of it. There is not much downside on a 996 turbo or a GT3 in today's pricing.
10-15-2013, 02:11 PM
#25
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Thanks everyone with all the help. I really appreciate it I a moving up from a 07 corvette & I had a budget but I got caught up in the c4s vs. turbo originally I was looking at c2 & c4s in my budget but started looking at cars out of my budget & trying to stretch a little. I buy cars often so I thought the turbo would stop that but I know it will not. I agree I would rather buy a car from a guy I trust. He has 01 turbo but it's a tip I'm not a fan of autos(wife can't drive it) but is it that bad? Thanks again
10-15-2013, 03:13 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
+996
10-15-2013, 03:17 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Not a bad decision you have in front of you. Keep in mind that either car will need $$$ for general maintenance and unforeseen repairs. If you are stretching your budget to get a turbo with a tiptronic then id lean toward the 4S. The 4S is a loaded wide bodied car that you wont get tired of anytime soon. What color is the 4S? They are very competent on the track as well. The tiptronic would be deal breaker for me.