Experience going from Audi to Porsche
09-20-2013, 10:00 PM
#31
I find the 996 C2 with the M030 suspension to "feel" plenty raw in day to day driving. Even after 6 years and 60k miles of driving the C2 it can definitely get my attention and my adrenalin pumping.
I've been able to shift in a manner where more than a few passengers actually asked if the car was an automatic - that did sort of stun me - like what? you don't see me moving that stick between the seats? I do believe this is the result of having the great fortune to go for an impromptu ride along with a top instructor during a DE event. I was so impressed with her driving skills yet somewhat confused by the manner in how she shifted. After the run I did ask about the shifting and remember commenting that I could double clutch in the time she spent changing gears and asked if she thought her time would improve if she just shifted faster. That got quite a chuckle and a reply similar to "oh grasshopper". What also stood out in my mind was how absolutely smooth and fluid all of her driving inputs were.
That one ride changed the way I drive the 996. I rarely need to rev match on an upshift and I rarely trounce on the throttle.
The first time I allowed my son to drive the car I basically had to teach him that this was not a drag car with a gear cruncher tranny that would respond well to flat shifting. He still just had to ask if he could "chirp" the tires shifting from 1st to 2nd - I told him I didn't know but I was confident that Porsche didn't build the car to impress the masses with tire chirps. He drives it quite well these days.
And I think the term "lugging" is somewhat misused these days. I can easily cruise below 3,000 rpm and the engine is not "lugging".
Now the C4S is quite different - it tends to be more polite than the C2 and I will admit that it seems as if I have to push it at times to wake it up.
I've been able to shift in a manner where more than a few passengers actually asked if the car was an automatic - that did sort of stun me - like what? you don't see me moving that stick between the seats? I do believe this is the result of having the great fortune to go for an impromptu ride along with a top instructor during a DE event. I was so impressed with her driving skills yet somewhat confused by the manner in how she shifted. After the run I did ask about the shifting and remember commenting that I could double clutch in the time she spent changing gears and asked if she thought her time would improve if she just shifted faster. That got quite a chuckle and a reply similar to "oh grasshopper". What also stood out in my mind was how absolutely smooth and fluid all of her driving inputs were.
That one ride changed the way I drive the 996. I rarely need to rev match on an upshift and I rarely trounce on the throttle.
The first time I allowed my son to drive the car I basically had to teach him that this was not a drag car with a gear cruncher tranny that would respond well to flat shifting. He still just had to ask if he could "chirp" the tires shifting from 1st to 2nd - I told him I didn't know but I was confident that Porsche didn't build the car to impress the masses with tire chirps. He drives it quite well these days.
And I think the term "lugging" is somewhat misused these days. I can easily cruise below 3,000 rpm and the engine is not "lugging".
Now the C4S is quite different - it tends to be more polite than the C2 and I will admit that it seems as if I have to push it at times to wake it up.
09-21-2013, 02:01 PM
#32
Drifting
Alright fellas please be easy on me. I've only had my 996 for a little over two months so I am by no means an authority on Porsche but I previously owned two different Audi A4 Quattro 2.0Ts. One was purchased new in '06 and the other was a CPO'd '08 purchased in '09. They were both awesome. The turbos provided 200 HP with little to no lag and were balanced and throwable like luxury go karts. When I returned this summer from living in Italy for three years (with just our family car), I decided I wanted 300+ HP in my next car but did not want to blow a bunch of money on an S4, not just for economical reasons but also because my former Audi Club buddies were slowly but surely moving from S4s to A4s due to the power to weight advantage of the A. In the search for my third A4, I ran into an ad for my current 99' 996. I couldn't pass it up. The 911 has been on my bucket list. So I now own it and like it a lot but I don't love it. I keep comparing the dynamics of the driving experience to the Audi. Granted I'm aware that it is an apples to oranges comparison; you can't compare a front engine AWD turbo 2.0 liter car to a rear engine RWD 300 hp car. I was expecting more raw driving dynamics from the Porsche but the car is almost bipolar. Around town driving is almost no fun at all. The car seems like it wants to rev to 5000 RPMs or it wants to go back home and pout in the garage. Shifting hard and trying to throw it around is great if you have to room to unwind some of the horses but the shifting doesn't ever feel like the car is moving through the gears with fluid authority. It feels like the car is never quite happy with the RPMs as much as I try to rev match the shifts. It always seems like I'm holding the RPMs too high before the shift or letting the clutch out early no matter how I drive it.
Important to know:
1999 996 C2 with 30k, manual trans
Purchased the vehicle in Plano, Texas from a Caddilac dealer
Vehicle received a PPI from an Indy Porsche mechanic and a full inspection from my local Porsche dealership - result was a perfectly clean bill of health from both.
The vehicle is almost in mint condition.
I just accomplished the 30k maintenance from the local Porsche dealer.
I've read the threads about replacing the clutch spring (Home Depot mod). I'm not convinced this is the solution for me yet but I'll keep am open mind.
I'm mostly curious as to :
- maybe I just don't know how to drive this thing correctly (possible). But, I've driven classic Italian cars with nonsynchronous transmissions than I learned to throw around like a pro in 20 minutes.
- maybe there is a problem with my trans (doubtful)
- I am a former Audi owner and must stop comparing the experiences (I'll buy that)
- maybe other converts from great cars on this forum have had the same experience?
Important to know:
1999 996 C2 with 30k, manual trans
Purchased the vehicle in Plano, Texas from a Caddilac dealer
Vehicle received a PPI from an Indy Porsche mechanic and a full inspection from my local Porsche dealership - result was a perfectly clean bill of health from both.
The vehicle is almost in mint condition.
I just accomplished the 30k maintenance from the local Porsche dealer.
I've read the threads about replacing the clutch spring (Home Depot mod). I'm not convinced this is the solution for me yet but I'll keep am open mind.
I'm mostly curious as to :
- maybe I just don't know how to drive this thing correctly (possible). But, I've driven classic Italian cars with nonsynchronous transmissions than I learned to throw around like a pro in 20 minutes.
- maybe there is a problem with my trans (doubtful)
- I am a former Audi owner and must stop comparing the experiences (I'll buy that)
- maybe other converts from great cars on this forum have had the same experience?
09-21-2013, 03:15 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
I wonder if the OP has a short shifter installed. I had a B&M installed for a month or two and not too many of my shifts were smooth during that time. I went back to the stock 996 shifter and things were better (I know right).
I just installed a stock 997 shifter though and couldn't be more pleased with the feel. It's a little bit shorter and the metal side plate gives it a nice solid feel.
Other than that - we're still not sure if the OP has a problem with his car or not. From his description he sounds like the type of guy who would know how to use a good Porsche, and we all know these cars work pretty good right out of the box, so I suspect something (or a whole bunch of small things) aren't quit right.
For me personally, the feel of a car is critical and it's all in the setup. Besides the 997 shifter I have installed RS motor mounts, the Gbox detent, a lightweight flywheel and a Sachs sport clutch. My gearbox and throttle response feel like the pope himself blessed them.
My straight line speed is nothing to be ashamed of either. Yes, I have the 3.6 variocam plus but from what I hear the 3.4 has its charm as well.
OP - start massaging that car and it will start to feel like you think it should. You'll need to spend some money. Not all that much, but some. Start with some coil-overs and sway bars. After that I'd recommend stiffer motor mounts (WEVO or Porsche RS) and a stock 997 shifter.
Of course before any of that, take the car to someone who knows these engines and have them verify it's running correctly.
PS - I have an Audi as well. A stock 2004 A6 All-Road with the twin turbo 2.7 and a 6 speed manual. When people ask me how I like it I tell them - it's no Porsche.
I just installed a stock 997 shifter though and couldn't be more pleased with the feel. It's a little bit shorter and the metal side plate gives it a nice solid feel.
Other than that - we're still not sure if the OP has a problem with his car or not. From his description he sounds like the type of guy who would know how to use a good Porsche, and we all know these cars work pretty good right out of the box, so I suspect something (or a whole bunch of small things) aren't quit right.
For me personally, the feel of a car is critical and it's all in the setup. Besides the 997 shifter I have installed RS motor mounts, the Gbox detent, a lightweight flywheel and a Sachs sport clutch. My gearbox and throttle response feel like the pope himself blessed them.
My straight line speed is nothing to be ashamed of either. Yes, I have the 3.6 variocam plus but from what I hear the 3.4 has its charm as well.
OP - start massaging that car and it will start to feel like you think it should. You'll need to spend some money. Not all that much, but some. Start with some coil-overs and sway bars. After that I'd recommend stiffer motor mounts (WEVO or Porsche RS) and a stock 997 shifter.
Of course before any of that, take the car to someone who knows these engines and have them verify it's running correctly.
PS - I have an Audi as well. A stock 2004 A6 All-Road with the twin turbo 2.7 and a 6 speed manual. When people ask me how I like it I tell them - it's no Porsche.
09-22-2013, 05:56 AM
#35
Drifting
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Get it on some country lanes where you know there are no cops and drive it like you just stole it. Don't miss any gears up and down the box and let the compression slow you up when needed and hammer it out of the bends. You probably wont get much higher than 4th gear. You will be amazed at the 3rd gear.
09-22-2013, 06:30 PM
#36
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All,
On Saturday I participated in a local PCA meet-up and drive. I worked on keeping the revs higher through the shifts and it made a huge difference. It helped to hear the other cars and to get an idea for what their rev ranges were. Our regional Club lead has a 996 and I plan to pick his brain more about our cars. Eventually, I'd like to see if he'll let me drive his around the block so that I can compare the two and see if there is something different about mine. I'm leaning more and more to the side of the argument that I have been too cautious with my car. I think in the back of my mind I've been worrying about over revving or harming the engine somehow. Now I'm starting to drive it like "I stole it" and I'm starting to understand the difference. It still doesn't feel as refined but I am able to throw it around a whole lot more with some authority and I'm starting to get a better feel for how it wants to be driven. I'm coming around.
On Saturday I participated in a local PCA meet-up and drive. I worked on keeping the revs higher through the shifts and it made a huge difference. It helped to hear the other cars and to get an idea for what their rev ranges were. Our regional Club lead has a 996 and I plan to pick his brain more about our cars. Eventually, I'd like to see if he'll let me drive his around the block so that I can compare the two and see if there is something different about mine. I'm leaning more and more to the side of the argument that I have been too cautious with my car. I think in the back of my mind I've been worrying about over revving or harming the engine somehow. Now I'm starting to drive it like "I stole it" and I'm starting to understand the difference. It still doesn't feel as refined but I am able to throw it around a whole lot more with some authority and I'm starting to get a better feel for how it wants to be driven. I'm coming around.
09-23-2013, 03:43 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
your 996: 258 ft-lb torque at 4,600 RPM
your 08 Audi 2.0T: 207 ft-lb torque at 1,800 RPM.
OF COURSE your Audi is going to feel zippier/happier/ faster in city driving.
your 08 Audi 2.0T: 207 ft-lb torque at 1,800 RPM.
OF COURSE your Audi is going to feel zippier/happier/ faster in city driving.
09-23-2013, 07:51 PM
#38
I was gonna say the exact thing. Plus with the eGas, this would add to even more responsiveness in the Audi, especially in the low speed, low rev situations.
09-23-2013, 08:01 PM
#39
Race Director
Good for you, man. The car has a rev limiter (although 99% of owners probably don't realize this) - it's not a crime to use it. Downshifting into the wrong gear and over-revving is a bad thing and should be avoided. Winding the gears out and listening to your 911 sing should NOT be avoided. 
