Notices
996 Forum 1999-2005
Sponsored by:

lets discuss Crank Position Sensors for a moment

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-14-2013, 05:21 PM
  #31  
Shark Attack
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Shark Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 11,013
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Glide, thank you but I no longer feel this is the problem.
Old 07-14-2013, 05:30 PM
  #32  
Ahsai
Nordschleife Master
 
Ahsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,328
Received 65 Likes on 50 Posts
Default

At 24s cold start, the voltmeter reads 11v, you need a new battery. I can hear it cranks slower than normal too even when cold. Since you get 14v after the engine starts, I think your alternator is most likely fine but there are tests to verufy that.

Now hot start, you turned the key really quickly but I think I saw the same 11v right before you crank it. That means your battery is not charging properly during drive. Corrosion may contrbute but when the engine is not running, the voltmeter will show the full battery voltage even with corrosion. So I think your battery is weak.

i expect a full powerful hot start if you jump from the engine bay. If yes, do what Speed suggested to jump start from the frunk to eliminate the cables. You could have a parasitic draw that's draining your battery over night.
Old 07-14-2013, 05:40 PM
  #33  
Shark Attack
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Shark Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 11,013
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

I can't find my damn jumper cables.
Old 07-14-2013, 07:44 PM
  #34  
Ahsai
Nordschleife Master
 
Ahsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,328
Received 65 Likes on 50 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Shark Attack
I can't find my damn jumper cables.
Please use 6 gauge or fatter if you could. Those wimpy 10 gauge may lead you down some false diagnostic paths.
Old 07-14-2013, 10:12 PM
  #35  
golftime
Rennlist Member
 
golftime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 386
Received 90 Likes on 63 Posts
Default

Maybe someone else can weigh in on whether they have ever seen this with P-cars, but I know some other makes have experienced this behavior when the starter heats up due to proximity to the motor, and the starter tolerances are so close that the resulting expansion causes the starter to bind It will not show up on a bench test because the starter is cold at the time.
Old 07-14-2013, 11:26 PM
  #36  
Shark Attack
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Shark Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 11,013
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by golftime
Maybe someone else can weigh in on whether they have ever seen this with P-cars, but I know some other makes have experienced this behavior when the starter heats up due to proximity to the motor, and the starter tolerances are so close that the resulting expansion causes the starter to bind It will not show up on a bench test because the starter is cold at the time.
Exactly!

I found the + connection up under the transmission, it shows promise of being an issue. But will take to long to try to remove.

So
Tomorrow I will go buy what I need to bypass this cable.

If the problem persists after this, I will remove the starter again and find a shop that can heat it to 270* before they test it. And then I think the problem will show up.
Old 07-15-2013, 06:47 AM
  #37  
Imo000
Captain Obvious
Super User
 
Imo000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,846
Received 339 Likes on 245 Posts
Default

I had this happen on my old Trans Am, during changing of the starter, I was too lazy to pu the starter heat shield back on and had the same exact issues that you have now. Ths starter would heat up from the aftermarket headers and do exactly what you have in the video. Therefore, I'm agreeing that your issue is probably a starter that acts up when it's heat soaked.
Old 07-15-2013, 11:36 AM
  #38  
utkinpol
Rennlist Member
 
utkinpol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,902
Received 23 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

after watching your video i think my car had kinda similar attitude 2 years ago, so, i simply went to autozone and bought biggest battery i could fit into frunk, you have to undo a bolt in the stock battery holder to fit bigger longer unit in there.
it is heavier than a stock one, indeed, and it sux to haul more dead weight in the sports car but after that i never had issues with slow cranks and car can sit in a garage way longer now with no issues.
if you have good pro grade multimeter you can try to measure actual voltage drop at the battery terminals during fast cranks and during slow cranks, you will need an assistant for that.

you can always use an external battery and when car is shut off with key off apply voltage to starter directly when car is hot and off on neutral gear to check if you get mechanical issue with some bearings or starter itself.
Old 07-15-2013, 11:46 AM
  #39  
Ahsai
Nordschleife Master
 
Ahsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,328
Received 65 Likes on 50 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Imo000
I had this happen on my old Trans Am, during changing of the starter, I was too lazy to pu the starter heat shield back on and had the same exact issues that you have now. Ths starter would heat up from the aftermarket headers and do exactly what you have in the video. Therefore, I'm agreeing that your issue is probably a starter that acts up when it's heat soaked.
I thought you already rebuilt it and had same problem with previous starter. Anyway, just to be safe, if you jump start, only jump with a known good battery and with the other car engine OFF to prevent damaging the other car's alternator.
Old 07-15-2013, 11:49 AM
  #40  
ZX9RCAM
Nordschleife Master
 
ZX9RCAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Spring, Texas (The Woodlands)
Posts: 5,147
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

I had the CPS go out in my 1999.
I would be driving along & the motor would just quit.
Have to wait several hours for it to start up & then it would not
start at all.
Old 07-15-2013, 12:04 PM
  #41  
Shark Attack
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Shark Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 11,013
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

I have thought about a higher crank amp battery, but to me that is a band aid and not really fixing the problem. I feel eventually your problem will resurface with no where else for you to go as what ever the true issue is continues to get worse.

Originally Posted by utkinpol
after watching your video i think my car had kinda similar attitude 2 years ago, so, i simply went to autozone and bought biggest battery i could fit into frunk, you have to undo a bolt in the stock battery holder to fit bigger longer unit in there.
it is heavier than a stock one, indeed, and it sux to haul more dead weight in the sports car but after that i never had issues with slow cranks and car can sit in a garage way longer now with no issues.
if you have good pro grade multimeter you can try to measure actual voltage drop at the battery terminals during fast cranks and during slow cranks, you will need an assistant for that.

you can always use an external battery and when car is shut off with key off apply voltage to starter directly when car is hot and off on neutral gear to check if you get mechanical issue with some bearings or starter itself.
Old 07-16-2013, 12:36 AM
  #42  
acadian_dad
Rennlist Member
 
acadian_dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dunrobin, ON, Canada
Posts: 661
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Me too ...

Am having very same symptoms on my '99 996 C2 - at a DE this weekend. Tried jumping from my Highlander and from a portable battery pack at various moments and it didn't really help much - was jumping at the battery in the frunk - didn't occur to me to try the engine jump point - doh. Didn't have my DVM handy but will make sure I bring it next time.

I have a Durametric - any real time data I should try to capture during cranking ?

Anyways - subscribed - looking forward to hear when you do solve the issue.
Old 07-16-2013, 05:23 PM
  #43  
Shark Attack
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Shark Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 11,013
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Its either vapor lock or starter. I did the test with running a jumper cable from the Battery to the jump point in the rear of the car. Same exact situation. Maybe to night I will do it again and use a jump battery in the back.
Old 07-16-2013, 06:11 PM
  #44  
dcdrechsel
Rennlist Member
 
dcdrechsel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 565
Received 38 Likes on 33 Posts
Default

I hate to ask this but........is the coolant level normal ?
Old 07-16-2013, 10:18 PM
  #45  
Shark Attack
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Shark Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 11,013
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dcdrechsel
I hate to ask this but........is the coolant level normal ?
It was slightly low a few weeks ago. But I found the burp valve open. Figured it just steamed out there. Been keeping my eye on it and its been stable.


Quick Reply: lets discuss Crank Position Sensors for a moment



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 09:16 PM.