I need your advice on which Porsche 911 to buy
05-06-2013, 10:08 AM
#16
Rocky Mountain High
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The 997 and 987 were launched in the US as 2005 models. They share a great deal of their mechanical equipment with the 996. They have the same great reliability as the 996, and I don't think you would really gain any advantage in terms of reliability. They have updated interiors and exteriors, which are nice.
If you would consider a Boxster, you should drive one. It's a totally different animal than a 911.
If you would consider a Boxster, you should drive one. It's a totally different animal than a 911.
05-06-2013, 10:27 AM
#17
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EMBPilot, I don't like the retro look of the 993 and much prefer the 996 and newer models over it, and the fact it's water cooled.
Dennis, speaking of suspension, upon further online researching I have learned suspension and related parts will likely near the end of its life cycle on very high mileage 911s-- and I'm referring to well taken care of/extensive service history 911s. Is this something I should factor in when looking??
I don't like yellow that much, but this seems like a solid deal:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifie...2-2003/1335179
Judging from what he/she has written, without doing a PPI, would you guys think this is a smart buy? Any way to tell if he/she is hiding something or being intentionally misleading?
I have spoken with my step-dad a few hours ago talking about my future car, and he recommended I get a 2004-2006 Boxster instead, if I want a Porsche. I told him I wanted a 911 (the 996 body styled 911 is my dream car), since it looks sexy as hell and it has a ton of street presence.
He said it's more reliable and cheaper to maintain and run as the 2004 year apparently was the year the earliest 997 debuted with more reliable mechanics. I have to admit, the 2006 Boxster looks quite nice, and I don't like convertibles normally, unless it's a Lamborghini Murci/Gallardo or the Ferrari F430.
Dennis, speaking of suspension, upon further online researching I have learned suspension and related parts will likely near the end of its life cycle on very high mileage 911s-- and I'm referring to well taken care of/extensive service history 911s. Is this something I should factor in when looking??
I don't like yellow that much, but this seems like a solid deal:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifie...2-2003/1335179
Judging from what he/she has written, without doing a PPI, would you guys think this is a smart buy? Any way to tell if he/she is hiding something or being intentionally misleading?
I have spoken with my step-dad a few hours ago talking about my future car, and he recommended I get a 2004-2006 Boxster instead, if I want a Porsche. I told him I wanted a 911 (the 996 body styled 911 is my dream car), since it looks sexy as hell and it has a ton of street presence.
He said it's more reliable and cheaper to maintain and run as the 2004 year apparently was the year the earliest 997 debuted with more reliable mechanics. I have to admit, the 2006 Boxster looks quite nice, and I don't like convertibles normally, unless it's a Lamborghini Murci/Gallardo or the Ferrari F430.
05-06-2013, 11:27 AM
#18
Plus you're insinuating that you want reliability, Have a scroll through the 996 forum topics then have a look at the 993 and 997 topics... let the evidence speak for itself.
Water cooling is not a "bonus"...
Last edited by EMBPilot; 05-06-2013 at 11:45 AM.
05-06-2013, 11:32 AM
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Hang on a sec... But you like the fact that the 996 shares the same fenders / headlights as a boxster?
Plus your insinuating that you want reliability, the 996 is not that. Just scroll through the 996 forum topics then have a look at the 993 and 997 topics... let the evidence speak for itself.
Water cooling is not a "bonus"...
Plus your insinuating that you want reliability, the 996 is not that. Just scroll through the 996 forum topics then have a look at the 993 and 997 topics... let the evidence speak for itself.
Water cooling is not a "bonus"...
They come from the dark side........
05-06-2013, 11:49 AM
#21
Rocky Mountain High
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Doesn't the 993 share headlights with the VW Beetle?
05-07-2013, 01:48 AM
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Dstutler, I can always upgrade the suspension--get ones that are more stiff, and heard that helps make the feel less floaty and more grounded at the front, which in effect--I assume, help make the rear more planted.
Dennis, is the Boxster less fun to drive, or is it easier to drive, harder?
I feel the oval headlights of the 997 are sometimes too retro for the body shape of the car--which let's face it, is a very huge step up from any 911 series that came before it.
I have seen an old Top Gear where Tiff Needell said the headlights debuted on the 911 first, not the Boxster. The funniest part, thanks to hind-sight, is he said people would "soon forget" that the Boxster's front looks like the 911, almost like "siblings". XD
Marc, I am not in the UK, but from browsing many sites' classified ads/forums, the prices seem to be lower than the in the States, and much lower than here in my country, Canada. I don't think the different side will be a deal breaker--I've seen a few Skylines, Supras and Mazda RX 7s in my city that are RHD, and I think it adds even more to the "unicorn" factor of these cars.
Dennis, is the Boxster less fun to drive, or is it easier to drive, harder?
I feel the oval headlights of the 997 are sometimes too retro for the body shape of the car--which let's face it, is a very huge step up from any 911 series that came before it.
I have seen an old Top Gear where Tiff Needell said the headlights debuted on the 911 first, not the Boxster. The funniest part, thanks to hind-sight, is he said people would "soon forget" that the Boxster's front looks like the 911, almost like "siblings". XD
Marc, I am not in the UK, but from browsing many sites' classified ads/forums, the prices seem to be lower than the in the States, and much lower than here in my country, Canada. I don't think the different side will be a deal breaker--I've seen a few Skylines, Supras and Mazda RX 7s in my city that are RHD, and I think it adds even more to the "unicorn" factor of these cars.
Last edited by TheLastTemplar; 05-07-2013 at 02:10 AM.
05-07-2013, 02:48 AM
#23
Three Wheelin'
I would steer clear of a $32k TT especially one with high miles (I.e., closing in on 100k). Yes, these cars were meant to be driven but ANY car with 100k miles is quickly approaching a few major maintenance jobs. Consider that a routine 30k mile maintenance on a non-TT runs about $1,200 at a dealer. I don't know if you plan on doing any or all of the maintenance on the car yourself but the older/higher mileage the car, the more prone they are to needing new big ticket items. Saving $1-2k a year for the car on a tight budget isn't going to feel good. TTs just haven't really hit the low $30k price mark...unless you're willing to gamble. Someone whon classifies themselves as "cheap" isn't typically also a gambler in that way.
There are good 996 options for you out there. I'd just steer you away from a TT at this point based on how you described yourself. If youre that stuck on it then go for it. My $.02. Best of luck!
-Eric
There are good 996 options for you out there. I'd just steer you away from a TT at this point based on how you described yourself. If youre that stuck on it then go for it. My $.02. Best of luck!
-Eric
05-07-2013, 05:21 AM
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Sue, thanks for your 2 cents. I have considered the TT, but I have seen some sexy looking 996's by doing a Google search. These are slightly modded, with really mainly the side markers, wing, and wheels/rims being the big ones as well as the tinted glasses.
I think by spending 20K on a early Carrera will be the best route for me. Last month, I have contemplated on spending 40K on a TT, and I balanced the cons and pros. Since I'm on a budget and now realizing spending so much on a car is not the smartest/best idea, I am inclined to not go this route anymore.
I say 30K or less to outright buy a Mark I or II, while setting aside $3000 a year is a smart option/idea... at least for myself it is.
I dont plan on doing any of the work myself--maybe retorquing bits and pieces, here and there, along with oil changes. That's about it, and I plan on going to an independent shop rather than at a Porsche dealer.
Lastly, I think I will maybe do 5000 miles or so every year anyways, so that routine 30K mile maintenance will be a non-issue.
I think by spending 20K on a early Carrera will be the best route for me. Last month, I have contemplated on spending 40K on a TT, and I balanced the cons and pros. Since I'm on a budget and now realizing spending so much on a car is not the smartest/best idea, I am inclined to not go this route anymore.
I say 30K or less to outright buy a Mark I or II, while setting aside $3000 a year is a smart option/idea... at least for myself it is.
I dont plan on doing any of the work myself--maybe retorquing bits and pieces, here and there, along with oil changes. That's about it, and I plan on going to an independent shop rather than at a Porsche dealer.
Lastly, I think I will maybe do 5000 miles or so every year anyways, so that routine 30K mile maintenance will be a non-issue.
05-07-2013, 01:14 PM
#25
you don't want to cheap out on a Turbo. The first words of advice I got from a very experienced Porsche owner "if you buy a Turbo engine from Porsche out of warranty have plenty of cash on hand".
That being said the laws of "you get what you pay for" do not apply with Porsche. You pay up for everything. To me that means take advantage of the depreciation to get the best Porsche engine put into the Carrera. It comes down to street engine v. race enigne. GT3/Turbo fit the latter, it's the real deal as far as race-proven, bomb-proof, will run 3 24 hour races (or thereabouts) which translates into many years of street miles. If you believe that a Porsche's value comes primarily from its engine (these cars are worth shockingly little without a running engine) then there is no better value than the Turbo and GT3. Turbos bleed value like gaping wound early on, GT3's seem to hold well but mass production of those will catch up to them eventually like all 996/997/991's.
However.....996 C4's and Turbos, basically all wheel drive 996 Carreras, have far too much understeer and there's not much you can really do about it. When the rear end gets drifty you lose power at the exact point you need it and the reward is even more push. If you plan to drive in snow and straight lines a lot, not a problem. Personally, a 996 GT3 is the best of both worlds and has pretty firm resale, but it can't be your primary vehicle and calling it a three-season car would be a stretch. Prepare for backpain if your local roads and highways suck.
For a modest budget I would go 996 S with 1-a decent amount of mileage from 2- a warm-weather climate (no long-term hibernation), 3-enthusiast owned, with 4-all the major known trouble spots ressolved. A new spuspension here, IMS/Clutch there, water-pump there and you're in the hole a third or more of the car's purchase price. So take your time (there are nearly 200K 996's on the road, PLENTY of supply before you even get into the 997's) or save up more Franklins for a lower mileage 996 Turbo.
That being said the laws of "you get what you pay for" do not apply with Porsche. You pay up for everything. To me that means take advantage of the depreciation to get the best Porsche engine put into the Carrera. It comes down to street engine v. race enigne. GT3/Turbo fit the latter, it's the real deal as far as race-proven, bomb-proof, will run 3 24 hour races (or thereabouts) which translates into many years of street miles. If you believe that a Porsche's value comes primarily from its engine (these cars are worth shockingly little without a running engine) then there is no better value than the Turbo and GT3. Turbos bleed value like gaping wound early on, GT3's seem to hold well but mass production of those will catch up to them eventually like all 996/997/991's.
However.....996 C4's and Turbos, basically all wheel drive 996 Carreras, have far too much understeer and there's not much you can really do about it. When the rear end gets drifty you lose power at the exact point you need it and the reward is even more push. If you plan to drive in snow and straight lines a lot, not a problem. Personally, a 996 GT3 is the best of both worlds and has pretty firm resale, but it can't be your primary vehicle and calling it a three-season car would be a stretch. Prepare for backpain if your local roads and highways suck.
For a modest budget I would go 996 S with 1-a decent amount of mileage from 2- a warm-weather climate (no long-term hibernation), 3-enthusiast owned, with 4-all the major known trouble spots ressolved. A new spuspension here, IMS/Clutch there, water-pump there and you're in the hole a third or more of the car's purchase price. So take your time (there are nearly 200K 996's on the road, PLENTY of supply before you even get into the 997's) or save up more Franklins for a lower mileage 996 Turbo.
Last edited by perfectlap; 05-07-2013 at 01:50 PM.
05-07-2013, 01:35 PM
#26
05-07-2013, 05:37 PM
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you don't want to cheap out on a Turbo. The first words of advice I got from a very experienced Porsche owner "if you buy a Turbo engine from Porsche out of warranty have plenty of cash on hand".
That being said the laws of "you get what you pay for" do not apply with Porsche. You pay up for everything. To me that means take advantage of the depreciation to get the best Porsche engine put into the Carrera. It comes down to street engine v. race enigne. GT3/Turbo fit the latter, it's the real deal as far as race-proven, bomb-proof, will run 3 24 hour races (or thereabouts) which translates into many years of street miles. If you believe that a Porsche's value comes primarily from its engine (these cars are worth shockingly little without a running engine) then there is no better value than the Turbo and GT3. Turbos bleed value like gaping wound early on, GT3's seem to hold well but mass production of those will catch up to them eventually like all 996/997/991's.
However.....996 C4's and Turbos, basically all wheel drive 996 Carreras, have far too much understeer and there's not much you can really do about it. When the rear end gets drifty you lose power at the exact point you need it and the reward is even more push. If you plan to drive in snow and straight lines a lot, not a problem. Personally, a 996 GT3 is the best of both worlds and has pretty firm resale, but it can't be your primary vehicle and calling it a three-season car would be a stretch. Prepare for backpain if your local roads and highways suck.
For a modest budget I would go 996 S with 1-a decent amount of mileage from 2- a warm-weather climate (no long-term hibernation), 3-enthusiast owned, with 4-all the major known trouble spots ressolved. A new spuspension here, IMS/Clutch there, water-pump there and you're in the hole a third or more of the car's purchase price. So take your time (there are nearly 200K 996's on the road, PLENTY of supply before you even get into the 997's) or save up more Franklins for a lower mileage 996 Turbo.
That being said the laws of "you get what you pay for" do not apply with Porsche. You pay up for everything. To me that means take advantage of the depreciation to get the best Porsche engine put into the Carrera. It comes down to street engine v. race enigne. GT3/Turbo fit the latter, it's the real deal as far as race-proven, bomb-proof, will run 3 24 hour races (or thereabouts) which translates into many years of street miles. If you believe that a Porsche's value comes primarily from its engine (these cars are worth shockingly little without a running engine) then there is no better value than the Turbo and GT3. Turbos bleed value like gaping wound early on, GT3's seem to hold well but mass production of those will catch up to them eventually like all 996/997/991's.
However.....996 C4's and Turbos, basically all wheel drive 996 Carreras, have far too much understeer and there's not much you can really do about it. When the rear end gets drifty you lose power at the exact point you need it and the reward is even more push. If you plan to drive in snow and straight lines a lot, not a problem. Personally, a 996 GT3 is the best of both worlds and has pretty firm resale, but it can't be your primary vehicle and calling it a three-season car would be a stretch. Prepare for backpain if your local roads and highways suck.
For a modest budget I would go 996 S with 1-a decent amount of mileage from 2- a warm-weather climate (no long-term hibernation), 3-enthusiast owned, with 4-all the major known trouble spots ressolved. A new spuspension here, IMS/Clutch there, water-pump there and you're in the hole a third or more of the car's purchase price. So take your time (there are nearly 200K 996's on the road, PLENTY of supply before you even get into the 997's) or save up more Franklins for a lower mileage 996 Turbo.
So how much cash extra should one set aside for a TT?
How much would a water pump cost? I know suspension is around $5000, a clutch is under a grand and IMS/RMS + labor should be $3000 or less.
05-07-2013, 06:52 PM
#29
996 waterpump is a lot more involved on a Carrera than a Boxster. The latter runs about $1,000 with labor. I think LN's IMS Solution for single bearing 996's is about right with your number when you toss in the clutch, add a few more clams if you need a flywheel. Suspension number sounds high for stock, but toss in rotors and you're probably in the $3K range, Boxster S braking is practically the same as the 996.
Last edited by perfectlap; 05-07-2013 at 07:09 PM.
05-07-2013, 09:30 PM
#30
Perfectlap has it right. You will not find a 996TT you would want to buy in the price range you originally described. Wonderful cars, but expensive to maintain and incredibly complex. If you get one, you want a really good one. Those are much more than $30k.
Find a nice, moderate miles (30-70k) MkII with PSM, Advanced Technics, 18" wheels and full leather. The more options the better I think. It will probably need a clutch and an RMS, unless they were done recently. if so, upgrade the IMS at the same time. Figure 2-3k for the job. And new tires probably, or at least soon. Another $1k. It adds up fast when you first get the car, fixing and setting it up just the way you want it.
Drive it for a couple of months before you decide to change anything. These cars are fairly amazing right out of the box... Except for mufflers. Order Fister Ds immediately. Trust me.
Good luck.
Find a nice, moderate miles (30-70k) MkII with PSM, Advanced Technics, 18" wheels and full leather. The more options the better I think. It will probably need a clutch and an RMS, unless they were done recently. if so, upgrade the IMS at the same time. Figure 2-3k for the job. And new tires probably, or at least soon. Another $1k. It adds up fast when you first get the car, fixing and setting it up just the way you want it.
Drive it for a couple of months before you decide to change anything. These cars are fairly amazing right out of the box... Except for mufflers. Order Fister Ds immediately. Trust me.
Good luck.