What's the highest horsepower you can put into a stock 911 reasonably
03-21-2013, 12:52 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
I believe the 996 GT3 makes its additional power by way of different heads, higher RPMs, and different tuning. To make 20-30 more HP in a standard 996 is a fairly simple matter of higher flowing intake, exhaust, and an ECU tune. Beyond that, as has been said, you're talking about major reworking that won't be simple or cheap and, unless done by someone who really knows what's what, can result in disaster. (Here, I'm thinking of Jake Raby as the "what's what" guru.) Forced induction on a 996 with stock internals is, in my opinion, asking for trouble.
Lighter weight can be had from removing sound deadening, rear seats, subwoofer, rear stereo speakers, spare tire and related tools -- all of which are pretty much free (dollar wise) though they introduce some compromises to everyday enjoyment for some.
Light-weight wheels are a good option but can get very expensive very quickly if you venture into the forged-wheel universe. OZ cast aluminum Alleggeritas (sp?) are very light and strong, and a set will run around $1700-$1800 new from Tire Rack. Forged wheels are stronger and equally light, but will easily cost twice that or (much) more.
Light-weight racing seats can also save a fair amount of weight, but either will give you a definite "hey, check out my race car" look (a la Sparco Evo, etc.) or else will cost for GT2 or other stock Porsche racing seats.
Lighter, especially if you're planning on tracking the car at all, is always the first route I explore. It's cheaper and it not only improves acceleration, but braking and cornering as well. Once the car is as light as you can live with/afford, then explore horsepower. I know, horsepower is what wins bar-stool races...
Lighter weight can be had from removing sound deadening, rear seats, subwoofer, rear stereo speakers, spare tire and related tools -- all of which are pretty much free (dollar wise) though they introduce some compromises to everyday enjoyment for some.
Light-weight wheels are a good option but can get very expensive very quickly if you venture into the forged-wheel universe. OZ cast aluminum Alleggeritas (sp?) are very light and strong, and a set will run around $1700-$1800 new from Tire Rack. Forged wheels are stronger and equally light, but will easily cost twice that or (much) more.
Light-weight racing seats can also save a fair amount of weight, but either will give you a definite "hey, check out my race car" look (a la Sparco Evo, etc.) or else will cost for GT2 or other stock Porsche racing seats.
Lighter, especially if you're planning on tracking the car at all, is always the first route I explore. It's cheaper and it not only improves acceleration, but braking and cornering as well. Once the car is as light as you can live with/afford, then explore horsepower. I know, horsepower is what wins bar-stool races...
03-21-2013, 01:50 PM
#19
Instructor
Join Date: Dec 2011
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I think these cars respond well to slightly wider front wheels plus 5 mm spacers all around, something you can do when selecting aftermarket wheels. I use stock width 225 mm Michelins on 8.5 in. wide front rims, which with the spacers gives you approximately 3/4 inch wider front track which seems to improve turn in a lot. Driven hard, I personally think these cars have more than enough power.
03-21-2013, 02:01 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I have considered the idea of gutting it and molding a duckbill to it, though. We'll see if it ever comes to fruition.
03-21-2013, 02:40 PM
#21
Word! The M96/M86 engine is just not a particularly tunable engine, and that's a GOOD thing, it means Porsche got it right the first time. Remember, a reciprocating internal combustion engine is basically a big air pump. Figure out a way to get more air thru it and it will burn more gas and thus generate more horsepower. Your basic air intake/exhaust/O2 table mods just don't work on this guy. And the already high compression ratio (not to mention Porsche's air intake manifold voodoo) makes the engine wildly unsuited for turbo charging. Supercharging has it's own set of drawbacks but is theoretically somewhat effective with this engine (there are plenty of writeups on this already.) Bottom line ... your best bet is sell the car you think is underpowered and go buy the car that suits your needs. Save the tuning for the honda civics.
Last edited by LordVicious; 03-21-2013 at 02:43 PM. Reason: needed to say something snarky about hondas
03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
#22
Hey wait a minute! I made all these same points about increasing the power of the M96 including reasons not to SC or TC a HC ratio stock engine and I got abused worse than a ______.
Alp, somebody, help me?????? Am I missing something? I think some of my bro's here just like to beat up on me.
Heres what the king of M96 knowledge has to say:
by JR
Alp, somebody, help me?????? Am I missing something? I think some of my bro's here just like to beat up on me.
Heres what the king of M96 knowledge has to say:
Just Don't Do It..
Unlike other companies that will apply boost to a "box stock" engine, we discourage this. Thats simply due to our experience with these engines and the fact that in stock form, they don't hold up very well and under boost trouble is to be expected. The stock compression ratio is too high, the stock cylinders too weak and the stock cast pistons are paper thin, why would anyone ever apply forced induction to an engine with these issues?? We will not!
In fact, after our experiences we will not build an engine for turbocharging at all, even if it is updated with our components, processes and blessed.
Unlike other companies that will apply boost to a "box stock" engine, we discourage this. Thats simply due to our experience with these engines and the fact that in stock form, they don't hold up very well and under boost trouble is to be expected. The stock compression ratio is too high, the stock cylinders too weak and the stock cast pistons are paper thin, why would anyone ever apply forced induction to an engine with these issues?? We will not!
In fact, after our experiences we will not build an engine for turbocharging at all, even if it is updated with our components, processes and blessed.
03-21-2013, 06:49 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Can you do it? Sure.
Is it worth it? Probably not.
03-21-2013, 07:00 PM
#24
Hey wait a minute! I made all these same points about increasing the power of the M96 including reasons not to SC or TC a HC ratio stock engine and I got abused worse than a ______.
Alp, somebody, help me?????? Am I missing something? I think some of my bro's here just like to beat up on me.
Heres what my gf whom I'm madly in love with of M96 knowledge has to say:
by JR
Alp, somebody, help me?????? Am I missing something? I think some of my bro's here just like to beat up on me.
Heres what my gf whom I'm madly in love with of M96 knowledge has to say:
by JR
Look, VF SC has been around for quite some time with thousands of happy users and if there were some issues, we would've heard about them by now on these forums.
TPC has changed from SC and have been pushing their turbo kits and have been around for a couple years with many satisfied customers as well.
Despite all the theory BS with high compression, yada yada, there are real world case scenarios that you simply can't argue with. I used to be in the same camp with high compression motors being bad for forced induction but technology and engines have changed since the 80's to some degree that allow more forgiveness in FI a NA motor these days, especially in moderation and in low boost applications.
As for maximizing power from NA perspective on the M96 motors, I don't think it's very cost effective for what your getting compared to other motors(LS for example). But there are a couple dozen dyno graphs out there proving you can pick up a bit here and there.
I'm hoping to find out myself this summer when I'll have maximized bolt-ons along with a ECU tune to see where my journey takes me. I'm willing to take one for the team and finally squash these theories to see how much of an improvement can be made or not.
03-21-2013, 07:24 PM
#25
Race Director
Just came across this http://vf-engineering.com/carrera-996/ and I have to say it looks pretty sexy. Anyone know anything about these? I talked to my porsche mechanic and he said you can get another 30-40 hp into a stock 911 for about $800 in mods, but then I saw this and well, I'm curious.
First of all you obviously never want to damage the car's life or great driving, and you also don't want to drop a fortune, at that point, you just buy a something faster.
$8000 isn't cheap but it's not crazy either for a lot of fun horsepower added to a beautiful low mile car.....if it works.
First of all you obviously never want to damage the car's life or great driving, and you also don't want to drop a fortune, at that point, you just buy a something faster.
$8000 isn't cheap but it's not crazy either for a lot of fun horsepower added to a beautiful low mile car.....if it works.
I'd say what's reasonable is what HP the engine produces as it comes from the factory.
You can get the engine to make more HP but with not only the cost of the power add-ons, but with an increase in wear/tear, fuel consumption, dirtier emissions, and extra servicing costs and very likely a shortened life span, too.
If you can live with the risk and additional costs then mod and up the HP to your heart's content (and you wallet's ability to absorb the punishment).
