Seaflat

All,

I am very close to getting a 996. I just want to clear a few concerns. I currently have a 93 964 and I am thinking about moving up (well they are different cars so I don’t know that it is up, because my current 964 is pretty darn cool.)

I have read the RMS and IMS sticky thread as well as a pdf from Auto farm but I am still just a bit concerned over the engine failures paired with the fact that the engines are not often rebuilt. I just wanted to confirm that the 3.6 engines are back to the solid reliability that I have in the 964? The auto farm article says the 3.6 are pretty much problem free, so do they not have the IMS and RMS issue at all? Or do they still need to be modded ?

One of the main reasons I am moving to a 996 is I want a few more creature comforts, they are wider and more comfortable and they have modern conveniences (like functional AC systems ) I will be driving this new car about 80% of the time.

Is there a thread somewhere about the common problems to look out for? (Don’t worry I will be getting a PPI)

Also I am seriously thinking about getting a Cab this time. I love the convertibles, but didn’t get one because I was going to do DE days. In fact I have not done much except Autocross. I would like the ability to track the car some occasionally, and from what I can figure out with the rollover protections this is allowed at most tracks (I am in the US about an hour or so from Virginia International Raceway). Are the cabs ok to track? Ie is the wind difficult to deal with or do you track it with the top up?

I may back off and just get a hard top, but I have not owed a convertible since my TR6 about a million years ago.

So my main concerns are the the engine reliability and the ability to track with the convertible, but let me know any other concerns I should be looking for. Here is a link to of the cars I am looking at. 03 Cab

I will miss my 964 but I can’t afford both
Thanks in advance for all the feed back.
John

Marc Gelefsky

Hi John,

The 3.6 M96 motors still suffer IMS and RMS issues, right into the 997 models, You will hear many opinions here on the IMS subject. And for the most part thats all they are. Opinions.
There are hundreds of threads.

I upgraded the IMS on my car a couple years back, Have owned my 996 for around 5 years now and it's been a great car.

Good luck!

82_930

The 996 is a great car...if the IMS issue really bothers you then just make the upgrade.

Seaflat

So if I go ahead and do the mod I am safe?

lowpue

I did the IMS upgrade last year. From everything I hear. there have been no issues with upgrade...though someone may know different.

Dennis C

My 996 has been very reliable. I'm about to hit 120K miles on my original IMSB.

The ceramic bearing upgrade offered by LN Engineering and others is an improvement over the stock bearing in terms of materials and design. That being said, it's still the weak link in the engine. There are documented cases of upgraded bearings failing. Some people recommend changing the bearing at some regular interval, like every 60K miles. The water pump is another 996 part that should be changed before it fails. It seems to make sense to change it every 60K miles also.

I'm not trying to scare you off regarding the IMSB, but you need to know that there's not a 100% guaranteed fix for the issue. It's a design issue.

If you get a well-sorted, well-documented car then the chances of IMSB failure are very low. If you upgrade the bearing, they are even lower. I would find the right one, do the upgrade and then stop worrying about it. These really are great driving cars.

Seaflat

Thanks for the replies. I am sure this has been discussed to death here....in fact with a search it is hard to read through all the results. The Auto Farm article really threw me off, saying the 3.6 was problem free.
I spoke to the shop that currently works on my 964 and they love the 996 with the 3.6 and say it is much cheaper to maintain than my car.
In fact they said they have only seen 2 IMS failures. I think there is another improvement coming out sometime in the new year. I guess if I could do it for 2k or less I would go ahead just to be safe.

These cars are way more comfortable than my 964.

ivangene

you are as safe as you let yourself feel when shopping at the mall...yes someone might come through the door and start shooting at any second, rather you let that fear stop you from going out or you replace your bearing and say..I know karate - I am safe...is up to you

never really safe, never really unsafe, low probability, high cost in if happens to you

and YES people ARE rebuilding them now - the parts and tools are available

some regions do not allow cabs, check your local region..ours does and PCA national rules also allows cabs BUT as stated each region has the option to omit them - BMW club here will not allow cabs - any cabs! (but the old CDI was a tad of a **** so that might be changing this year with a new CDI on deck....)

concerns with a 996 - I would say infrequently driven or not driven correctly cars have a higher likelihood of having issues than cars that are driven often and warmed up correctly and then red lined on a regular basis - but THAT is opinion and many will disagree....my 996 had 130k miles last known location and had just had new cam actuators installed - starting to see those become a failure, but it's a relatively easy job for the right guy and the parts are $1k (x2) plus the labor (6-8 hours - guess)

ivangene

$2k IMS replacement is very "optimistic"

IMO - if the car is a 6 speed, its possible the clutch kit would need replacing and the flywheel (dual mass) might also be bad - the flywheel is $1k and the clutch another $600 (guessing prices) - then the "while your in there list of AOS and RMS (if weeping) you would be looking closer to $4k - but yes...$2k can be done...just dont put a lot of faith in that number...

TomF

Welcome to the 996 board! It sounds as though you have thought this out pretty carefully. Having owned a variety of 911s over nearly 30 years, I can tell you that the 996 is one heck of a car for the money. There is no comparison to the earlier cars for comfort.

I moved to my first 996 just over two years ago and have found that they are indeed cheaper to maintain than their 3.6l aircooled predecessors. Keep in mind that this is strictly from a parts perspective as I do all the wrenching on my cars. I love my 996, but the quality of the engine components and ancillaries constantly bothers me. Every time I work on the engine, some random little plastic component breaks and I have to make a pilgrimage to the Stealer for a replacement. Some on the board will say "What do you expect from a 12-car?" My response to this is that my 911SC, my 930 my Carrera Cab and my 993 were all much older than 12 years when I owned them and weren't plagued by these irritating issues.

Okay, having said that, if you have look at all the points of failure: IMS, Intermix (cracked head), etc...and are going into this eyes wide open, I say go for it! They are fantastic cars and are an incredible value right now.

I love your Guards Red 964, BTW!

Cheers,
TomF

ivangene

yea, Tom makes a good point,....some of the people in a 996 came from a 964,....and some from a Honda Accord - perspective is wide - to a 964 guy the maintenance costs might seem low - to a Honda guy they might seem outrages

for the most part the cars are reliable and great drivers - but they can break (as a 964 owner knows) and cost a significant amount of money - which a Honda guy doesnt get - nor have the means to cope with

and no Tim - I didnt pick on Honda's just for you

RF5BPilot

- as Ivangene said, drive it right, and most of your problems will be avoided. If you don't want to leap right away into replacing the IMS, you can get one of the early warning detectors from LNE, then just replace the IMS bearing when you do the clutch. Most of the cost of the IMS bearing replacement is in the dropping the transmission, etc. If you do it along with a clutch someday, the cost is relatively negligible. I think most of the people who replaced their IMS bearing with the LNE reported taking out bearings that looked just fine. (Clearly, there were a few that got theirs just in time.) However, like any aging car, be ready to put some money into a water pump, AOS, etc. No big deal. Most of these cars are quite reliable. Service records and your PPI will help you escape the rare one with consistent problems.

- The RMS is not a big deal. Even if the seal seeps a little, it just means that the car will spot on the garage floor a little until you get around to changing it. But it clearly has gone through a number of versions (each time getting better) and is worth changing if you go in to do other things. Normally, it doesn't leak in a way that soaks a clutch friction disk or cause other genuine problems. But they were an embarrassment to those who had purchased new cars, then saw oil spots on the garage floor.

- The cabs are great to track. A few car clubs on the East coast have required roll bars for cabs. That is the dramatic exception. Almost every club accepts the internal roll bars built into the rear deck. A car magazine article years ago said that while the coupe might be considered the more serious track car, the cab is more fun. Open air (which isn't a problem since you're wearing a helmet anyway). If you drive it with the top down, you get a little more weight shift toward the rear which (in their words) makes the handling more fun.

- When the 996 first came out, Porsche did not support them being rebuilt in the field. Some said that this was to force problems to come back to the company so they could see what was really happening in the newly designed engines rather than get it second hand. Once that period was over, however, parts, etc., became available. It's common to have a qualified shop rebuild your engine--and the rebuild can be cheaper than some of the older air cooled engines.

Good luck.

Cefalu

From what I have read, a ceramic IMS bearing replacement can remove the IMS bearing issue from the 996/997 decision.

In all instances but one, replacement ceramic bearing failures have been related to improper replacement methods, i.e. improper alignment on installation.

So if you install the bearing carefully and accurately and don't force it or otherwise misalign it during installation you are safe.

I replaced mine a couple if years ago and I don't ever think about it. And the car has been amazingly trouble free.

450knotOffice

I replaced my IMS and RMS just over a year ago while the clutch was being replaced. Of course, I went with the LN Engineering upgrade and haven't looked back since. Oh, and btw, I've had this car for 6 1/2 years and have added another 106,000 miles to the 37,000 it had when I bought it, for a total of 143,000 miles and counting. It's been my supremely reliable Daily Driver. Another thing - I am ALSO a die hard air cooled guy and have owned an '84 911 for eight years now and LOVE it. In fact, I love BOTH of those cars.

Don't let Ivangene scare you with talk of replacing the flywheel. That is highly unlikely, IMO. My clutch was replaced at 110,000 miles and when my (highly experienced) mechanic buddy looked at my flywheel, he said it was perfect. Good to go. Therefore, we only had to buy the clutch pack, which one can buy for between $625 and $685 on Pelican Parts. Factor in the IMS bearing for another $620, plus maybe the removal tool (if your mechanic doesn't have one already) and you're talking $1300 plus labor. $2000 sounds about right.

Seaflat

Thanks again for all the feedback I am much closer now. I love the areo kits on the 996s. So far only one I am looking at (the cab I linked above) doesn't have one. The side skirts (or what ever you call them) really help the body style.
The way I am thinking now, I am leaning towards the convertible. I just don't see myself tracking more than a time or two a year if that. And the area I live in you can drive with the top down with a jacket most of the year (give 3 months).