996 C2 or C4. My wife is all concerned about traction.
12-08-2012, 02:00 PM
#31
Former Vendor
For anyone interested, we have a great video section that shows firsthand many of the differences snow tires have over all-season and summer tires. There is a winter only tab, and yes there are several ice skating rink tests.
This one is my favorite. See firsthand how well a sports car (Maserati on stock Pirelli P-Zeros) does against the same car with Pirelli SottoZero winter tires. The summer-equipped car can't get out of it's own way and would have been downright dangerous on the road. It was probably 10 degrees that day.
This one is my favorite. See firsthand how well a sports car (Maserati on stock Pirelli P-Zeros) does against the same car with Pirelli SottoZero winter tires. The summer-equipped car can't get out of it's own way and would have been downright dangerous on the road. It was probably 10 degrees that day.
12-08-2012, 02:27 PM
#32
Drifting
They already have. Take a look. Please show us a comparison with your instrumented testing.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=167
"...To find out what sort of handling and traction the newest and best Studless Ice & Snow tires deliver, the Tire Rack team conducted a Real World Road Ride and Ice Rink Drive. We compared the new Michelin X-Ice Xi3 with the Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice WRT and two of the best already available in the category -- the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 and Continental ExtremeWinterContact. Our evaluation used 2012 BMW F30 328i sedans fitted with new, full tread depth 215/60R16 tires mounted on 16x7.5 wheels..."
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=167
"...To find out what sort of handling and traction the newest and best Studless Ice & Snow tires deliver, the Tire Rack team conducted a Real World Road Ride and Ice Rink Drive. We compared the new Michelin X-Ice Xi3 with the Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice WRT and two of the best already available in the category -- the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 and Continental ExtremeWinterContact. Our evaluation used 2012 BMW F30 328i sedans fitted with new, full tread depth 215/60R16 tires mounted on 16x7.5 wheels..."
12-08-2012, 02:38 PM
#33
Drifting
Remember, a C4,
at most can only give 30-40% of power to the front wheels
And only then AFTER an extended period, measured in seconds, of rear vs front wheelspin disparity, PSM OFF!
(to make it behave like a rear-wheel drive car) - so it's not quite as "4WD" as a jeep.
"..not quite.." the under statement of the millenia..!! A Jeep's 4WD drive mode is ALWAYS 50/50.
As other people have said, a C2 on winter tires will be much better than a C4 on all-season.
There is no substitute for good winter tires.
I went through the same thought process when I got my car - and I did get a C4, but if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have made that a deal breaker.
One important thing to remember is that the C4 came standard with PSM - which can offer a certain amount of "piece of mind".
at most can only give 30-40% of power to the front wheels
And only then AFTER an extended period, measured in seconds, of rear vs front wheelspin disparity, PSM OFF!
(to make it behave like a rear-wheel drive car) - so it's not quite as "4WD" as a jeep.
"..not quite.." the under statement of the millenia..!! A Jeep's 4WD drive mode is ALWAYS 50/50.
As other people have said, a C2 on winter tires will be much better than a C4 on all-season.
There is no substitute for good winter tires.
I went through the same thought process when I got my car - and I did get a C4, but if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have made that a deal breaker.
One important thing to remember is that the C4 came standard with PSM - which can offer a certain amount of "piece of mind".
12-08-2012, 02:46 PM
#34
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Mr. West......Its funny you are debating why winter tires are worthless in the winter......step back and think about it for second. You will realize how foolish this is.
12-08-2012, 02:49 PM
#35
Drifting
For anyone interested, we have a great video section that shows firsthand many of the differences snow tires have over all-season and summer tires. There is a winter only tab, and yes there are several ice skating rink tests.
This one is my favorite. See firsthand how well a sports car (Maserati on stock Pirelli P-Zeros) does against the same car with Pirelli SottoZero winter tires. The summer-equipped car can't get out of it's own way and would have been downright dangerous on the road. It was probably 10 degrees that day.
This one is my favorite. See firsthand how well a sports car (Maserati on stock Pirelli P-Zeros) does against the same car with Pirelli SottoZero winter tires. The summer-equipped car can't get out of it's own way and would have been downright dangerous on the road. It was probably 10 degrees that day.
Not one test of summer tires vs winter specialty tires.
12-08-2012, 02:55 PM
#36
cant believe that this was posted on an enthusiasts forum. the general comment section of the local newspaper...sure.
12-08-2012, 02:55 PM
#37
Drifting
In my case if conditions warrant the need/use of wintertime specialty tires you'll find the chains on my F/awd RX300.
12-08-2012, 03:02 PM
#38
Drifting
Extended use of PSM's TC mode is simply a substitute for the driver not knowing how to most carefully feather the throttle right up to the "cusp" of traction loss or even knowing which gear to be in upon start out.
TC activation can be valued warning/notice to the driver of road conditions of which he may not be aware. Beyond that point it is best turned OFF.
TC activation can be valued warning/notice to the driver of road conditions of which he may not be aware. Beyond that point it is best turned OFF.
12-08-2012, 04:51 PM
#39
I'm by no means saying worthless, just not an wholly adequate solution for commonplace wintertime road conditions, packed snow surface, frozen snow surface, ICE surface.
In my case if conditions warrant the need/use of wintertime specialty tires you'll find the chains on my F/awd RX300.
In my case if conditions warrant the need/use of wintertime specialty tires you'll find the chains on my F/awd RX300.
Your original quote back on page 1 was this: Originally Posted by wwest View Post
" "Snow" tires are TOTALLY worthless unless the surface is loose enough for the tread to sink into, penetrate slightly. On packed snow or ice you will be much better off with standard summer tires with more tread surface area for the surface contact patch."
The word "totally" being capitalized was YOUR emphasis. So are they "totally worthless" or are they "by no means worthless"? Can't have it both way. Then you said that if there is packed snow or ice that a summer tire is better than a winter tire. You should see if you can catch a few rides with people on different kinds of tires, it might be interesting. In the meantime I will need to look out for your cars on the highways.... Tire chains overall are a wholly inadequate solution and really do NOTHING on for example a thin layer of ice over blacktop. Never mind your significantly reduced speed limit relative to others on the highway with properly equipped vehicles. On packed snow in slow-speed conditions they are maybe equal to a good set of snow tires. And All-Season tires are NOT to be considered the same as Snow/Winter tires or Summer tires.. Your Bridgestone Turanza's are an All-Season, i.e. they compromise in every season. A Pirelli P-Zero Rosso is a Summer Tire, a Bridgestone Blizzak is a Winter/Snow tire. Any tire shop can explain and demonstrate the differences.
12-08-2012, 07:17 PM
#41
Rocky Mountain High
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I'm also a Colorado driver. I drive my C4S all year long, the only exception being snow deeper than 4-inches. I run summer tires on my car in warm weather, and I run winter tires on my car in Porsche recommended sizes in the winter. Typically, I aim for October 15th as the day to put the winter tires on, and May 15th as the day to put the summer tires on.
From personal experience, I can tell you that tires determine whether you can drive in snowy or icy conditions above all else. AWD or 4WD helps, but tires are really what you should seriously consider for winter driving. A C2 with winter tires will do well in winter conditions. A C4 or C4S will be horrible in winter conditions with summer tires. I've been caught out in the snow once before with my Pirelli P-Zeros on, and it was scary. With proper winter tires, my C4S is fantastic in the snow.
If you want a C2, then buy a C2. Put winter tires on it in the winter and you'll be fine.
From personal experience, I can tell you that tires determine whether you can drive in snowy or icy conditions above all else. AWD or 4WD helps, but tires are really what you should seriously consider for winter driving. A C2 with winter tires will do well in winter conditions. A C4 or C4S will be horrible in winter conditions with summer tires. I've been caught out in the snow once before with my Pirelli P-Zeros on, and it was scary. With proper winter tires, my C4S is fantastic in the snow.
If you want a C2, then buy a C2. Put winter tires on it in the winter and you'll be fine.
12-08-2012, 09:31 PM
#44
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