View Poll Results: N Rated?
N rated
30
39.47%
Non N rated
45
59.21%
Non N rated in a model that offers N rating
1
1.32%
Where can I get N rated wheel chair tires?!?!?!
0
0%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll
Do you run N rated tires?
10-14-2012, 02:50 PM
#16
Cardigan Millionaire
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Yes there are actually differences between the N rated and non N rated PS2's the side wall looks slightly different, casing is of a different construction load rating is different, and the side wall stiffness is different. That being said from what I recall the PS2 non N rated still meets the load requirements of the 996 with the engine being in the back.
10-14-2012, 07:47 PM
#19
Poseur
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As a long time Porsche owner/driver I have watched the evolution of tire technology for Porsche. Few other auto manufacturers seem to expend the amount of energy on tire design and their impact upon the handling of their cars.
Since we have always purchased Porsches for their superior handling capabilities we have to depend upon Porsche to work closely with the the tire manufacturers to extract the most they can out of their tire designs and for Porsche, to design the optimal suspensions to exploit those tires. Today, with the most advanced technologies available to these companies, we have grown to expect this from them. Porsche has even pursued advanced brake technology (e.g., PCCBs) to exploit that part of these cars to improve the cars fully.
Over the years I have watched owners wrestle with the decision of which tires to buy. We have the whole range of owners. Weekend racers, to daily drivers. Most daily drivers will complain about the relatively short life of their tires, while the racers will brag about the handling the best tires are providing them on today's Porsches. Several years ago when I brought my 06 S back from Germany I took a friend of mine out for a run on my local race track. He's been racing since the early 1960s, everything from 356s to 928s, to Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis--you name it. (It helps to be wealthy). He owns about 5 race cars today, ranging from GT1 Mazdas, to E-Type Jaguars. With all of the track time he has under his belt (he was in the SCCA finals a couple of years ago for E Production) I was surprised after our little local run to hear him tell me that he was amazed at the handling of the 997S--which I was running at about 7/10s at the time. He said it out handled many of his race cars--on race tires!
Why this long story? It's because tires are extremely important to extracting the performance potential of the Porsche, that we need to give great care to the selection of the tires for these cars. But there is always going to be a trade off. How much can we afford to pay for tires? For those of us who like to drive these things, we can easily spend a small fortune on tires in a given year!
In the past when my Porsches were not at the peak of their capability (as today's cars are) I would evolve away from the factory recommendations. I started on Michelins, migrated to Pirelli CN36 Cinturatos, ran on Pirelli P7s until I got a little smarter (and switched to Yokohama A008s!) But with the more current cars like the 996, 997 and now 991, I am sticking closer to the factory on tire choices. My 06 997S came with Bridgestones and I have stuck to them ever since. (Why change a proven thing?) With 911 tire wear at roughly 2:1 (rears to fronts) when you decide upon a tire you are committed to them for some time. Therefore, it's important to be sure that you find a tire that works and if not, shop around. This forum is extremely useful because you can interact with others on the 996 and 997 forums and find out which tire types are best.
Now back to N rated tires. I believe Porsche is the only manufacturer to develop a unique specification for tires for their cars. This says a lot about Porsche's understanding about the synergistic relationship to the design of their cars and the design of tires, today.
As our cars enter the used market many buyers of these things, who would have never considered buying one new because of the cost, are faced with the ordeal of buying tires for these performance animals. It's not the same decision for those who can drop $1500-$1800 for a set of 4 tires for their relatively new Porsche--than for those who got their Porsche with many miles or years on them. We might be more inclined to ration out our tire money in a more frugal manner. After all, the price of a set of high end rubber, e.g., Michelins, Pirelli, even Bridgestone, is a good chunk of change next to the used price of our cars.
Just don't sell your car short. Today's Porsches, which I include from the 996 through to the 991, are the most incredible handling Porsches that have ever come out of Bad Württenberg. But, you may not be doing yourself a favor if you decide to economize on your tires. You will sacrifice handling for that. Remember, in the grand scheme of things, a set of tires can breath new life into an otherwise dull car!
Of course, this is simply my personal opinion. Your experience will differ. I have nearly 350,000 miles in Porsches (mostly 911s) since 1974. About 70,000 miles of that are in my current ride, an 06 S Cabriolet, which I picked up at Zuffenhausen with 7 kilometers on the gauge.
Since we have always purchased Porsches for their superior handling capabilities we have to depend upon Porsche to work closely with the the tire manufacturers to extract the most they can out of their tire designs and for Porsche, to design the optimal suspensions to exploit those tires. Today, with the most advanced technologies available to these companies, we have grown to expect this from them. Porsche has even pursued advanced brake technology (e.g., PCCBs) to exploit that part of these cars to improve the cars fully.
Over the years I have watched owners wrestle with the decision of which tires to buy. We have the whole range of owners. Weekend racers, to daily drivers. Most daily drivers will complain about the relatively short life of their tires, while the racers will brag about the handling the best tires are providing them on today's Porsches. Several years ago when I brought my 06 S back from Germany I took a friend of mine out for a run on my local race track. He's been racing since the early 1960s, everything from 356s to 928s, to Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis--you name it. (It helps to be wealthy). He owns about 5 race cars today, ranging from GT1 Mazdas, to E-Type Jaguars. With all of the track time he has under his belt (he was in the SCCA finals a couple of years ago for E Production) I was surprised after our little local run to hear him tell me that he was amazed at the handling of the 997S--which I was running at about 7/10s at the time. He said it out handled many of his race cars--on race tires!
Why this long story? It's because tires are extremely important to extracting the performance potential of the Porsche, that we need to give great care to the selection of the tires for these cars. But there is always going to be a trade off. How much can we afford to pay for tires? For those of us who like to drive these things, we can easily spend a small fortune on tires in a given year!
In the past when my Porsches were not at the peak of their capability (as today's cars are) I would evolve away from the factory recommendations. I started on Michelins, migrated to Pirelli CN36 Cinturatos, ran on Pirelli P7s until I got a little smarter (and switched to Yokohama A008s!) But with the more current cars like the 996, 997 and now 991, I am sticking closer to the factory on tire choices. My 06 997S came with Bridgestones and I have stuck to them ever since. (Why change a proven thing?) With 911 tire wear at roughly 2:1 (rears to fronts) when you decide upon a tire you are committed to them for some time. Therefore, it's important to be sure that you find a tire that works and if not, shop around. This forum is extremely useful because you can interact with others on the 996 and 997 forums and find out which tire types are best.
Now back to N rated tires. I believe Porsche is the only manufacturer to develop a unique specification for tires for their cars. This says a lot about Porsche's understanding about the synergistic relationship to the design of their cars and the design of tires, today.
As our cars enter the used market many buyers of these things, who would have never considered buying one new because of the cost, are faced with the ordeal of buying tires for these performance animals. It's not the same decision for those who can drop $1500-$1800 for a set of 4 tires for their relatively new Porsche--than for those who got their Porsche with many miles or years on them. We might be more inclined to ration out our tire money in a more frugal manner. After all, the price of a set of high end rubber, e.g., Michelins, Pirelli, even Bridgestone, is a good chunk of change next to the used price of our cars.
Just don't sell your car short. Today's Porsches, which I include from the 996 through to the 991, are the most incredible handling Porsches that have ever come out of Bad Württenberg. But, you may not be doing yourself a favor if you decide to economize on your tires. You will sacrifice handling for that. Remember, in the grand scheme of things, a set of tires can breath new life into an otherwise dull car!
Of course, this is simply my personal opinion. Your experience will differ. I have nearly 350,000 miles in Porsches (mostly 911s) since 1974. About 70,000 miles of that are in my current ride, an 06 S Cabriolet, which I picked up at Zuffenhausen with 7 kilometers on the gauge.
10-14-2012, 08:33 PM
#20
As a long time Porsche owner/driver I have watched the evolution of tire technology for Porsche. Few other auto manufacturers seem to expend the amount of energy on tire design and their impact upon the handling of their cars.
Since we have always purchased Porsches for their superior handling capabilities we have to depend upon Porsche to work closely with the the tire manufacturers to extract the most they can out of their tire designs and for Porsche, to design the optimal suspensions to exploit those tires. Today, with the most advanced technologies available to these companies, we have grown to expect this from them. Porsche has even pursued advanced brake technology (e.g., PCCBs) to exploit that part of these cars to improve the cars fully.
Over the years I have watched owners wrestle with the decision of which tires to buy. We have the whole range of owners. Weekend racers, to daily drivers. Most daily drivers will complain about the relatively short life of their tires, while the racers will brag about the handling the best tires are providing them on today's Porsches. Several years ago when I brought my 06 S back from Germany I took a friend of mine out for a run on my local race track. He's been racing since the early 1960s, everything from 356s to 928s, to Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis--you name it. (It helps to be wealthy). He owns about 5 race cars today, ranging from GT1 Mazdas, to E-Type Jaguars. With all of the track time he has under his belt (he was in the SCCA finals a couple of years ago for E Production) I was surprised after our little local run to hear him tell me that he was amazed at the handling of the 997S--which I was running at about 7/10s at the time. He said it out handled many of his race cars--on race tires!
Why this long story? It's because tires are extremely important to extracting the performance potential of the Porsche, that we need to give great care to the selection of the tires for these cars. But there is always going to be a trade off. How much can we afford to pay for tires? For those of us who like to drive these things, we can easily spend a small fortune on tires in a given year!
In the past when my Porsches were not at the peak of their capability (as today's cars are) I would evolve away from the factory recommendations. I started on Michelins, migrated to Pirelli CN36 Cinturatos, ran on Pirelli P7s until I got a little smarter (and switched to Yokohama A008s!) But with the more current cars like the 996, 997 and now 991, I am sticking closer to the factory on tire choices. My 06 997S came with Bridgestones and I have stuck to them ever since. (Why change a proven thing?) With 911 tire wear at roughly 2:1 (rears to fronts) when you decide upon a tire you are committed to them for some time. Therefore, it's important to be sure that you find a tire that works and if not, shop around. This forum is extremely useful because you can interact with others on the 996 and 997 forums and find out which tire types are best.
Now back to N rated tires. I believe Porsche is the only manufacturer to develop a unique specification for tires for their cars. This says a lot about Porsche's understanding about the synergistic relationship to the design of their cars and the design of tires, today.
As our cars enter the used market many buyers of these things, who would have never considered buying one new because of the cost, are faced with the ordeal of buying tires for these performance animals. It's not the same decision for those who can drop $1500-$1800 for a set of 4 tires for their relatively new Porsche--than for those who got their Porsche with many miles or years on them. We might be more inclined to ration out our tire money in a more frugal manner. After all, the price of a set of high end rubber, e.g., Michelins, Pirelli, even Bridgestone, is a good chunk of change next to the used price of our cars.
Just don't sell your car short. Today's Porsches, which I include from the 996 through to the 991, are the most incredible handling Porsches that have ever come out of Bad Württenberg. But, you may not be doing yourself a favor if you decide to economize on your tires. You will sacrifice handling for that. Remember, in the grand scheme of things, a set of tires can breath new life into an otherwise dull car!
Of course, this is simply my personal opinion. Your experience will differ. I have nearly 350,000 miles in Porsches (mostly 911s) since 1974. About 70,000 miles of that are in my current ride, an 06 S Cabriolet, which I picked up at Zuffenhausen with 7 kilometers on the gauge.
Since we have always purchased Porsches for their superior handling capabilities we have to depend upon Porsche to work closely with the the tire manufacturers to extract the most they can out of their tire designs and for Porsche, to design the optimal suspensions to exploit those tires. Today, with the most advanced technologies available to these companies, we have grown to expect this from them. Porsche has even pursued advanced brake technology (e.g., PCCBs) to exploit that part of these cars to improve the cars fully.
Over the years I have watched owners wrestle with the decision of which tires to buy. We have the whole range of owners. Weekend racers, to daily drivers. Most daily drivers will complain about the relatively short life of their tires, while the racers will brag about the handling the best tires are providing them on today's Porsches. Several years ago when I brought my 06 S back from Germany I took a friend of mine out for a run on my local race track. He's been racing since the early 1960s, everything from 356s to 928s, to Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis--you name it. (It helps to be wealthy). He owns about 5 race cars today, ranging from GT1 Mazdas, to E-Type Jaguars. With all of the track time he has under his belt (he was in the SCCA finals a couple of years ago for E Production) I was surprised after our little local run to hear him tell me that he was amazed at the handling of the 997S--which I was running at about 7/10s at the time. He said it out handled many of his race cars--on race tires!
Why this long story? It's because tires are extremely important to extracting the performance potential of the Porsche, that we need to give great care to the selection of the tires for these cars. But there is always going to be a trade off. How much can we afford to pay for tires? For those of us who like to drive these things, we can easily spend a small fortune on tires in a given year!
In the past when my Porsches were not at the peak of their capability (as today's cars are) I would evolve away from the factory recommendations. I started on Michelins, migrated to Pirelli CN36 Cinturatos, ran on Pirelli P7s until I got a little smarter (and switched to Yokohama A008s!) But with the more current cars like the 996, 997 and now 991, I am sticking closer to the factory on tire choices. My 06 997S came with Bridgestones and I have stuck to them ever since. (Why change a proven thing?) With 911 tire wear at roughly 2:1 (rears to fronts) when you decide upon a tire you are committed to them for some time. Therefore, it's important to be sure that you find a tire that works and if not, shop around. This forum is extremely useful because you can interact with others on the 996 and 997 forums and find out which tire types are best.
Now back to N rated tires. I believe Porsche is the only manufacturer to develop a unique specification for tires for their cars. This says a lot about Porsche's understanding about the synergistic relationship to the design of their cars and the design of tires, today.
As our cars enter the used market many buyers of these things, who would have never considered buying one new because of the cost, are faced with the ordeal of buying tires for these performance animals. It's not the same decision for those who can drop $1500-$1800 for a set of 4 tires for their relatively new Porsche--than for those who got their Porsche with many miles or years on them. We might be more inclined to ration out our tire money in a more frugal manner. After all, the price of a set of high end rubber, e.g., Michelins, Pirelli, even Bridgestone, is a good chunk of change next to the used price of our cars.
Just don't sell your car short. Today's Porsches, which I include from the 996 through to the 991, are the most incredible handling Porsches that have ever come out of Bad Württenberg. But, you may not be doing yourself a favor if you decide to economize on your tires. You will sacrifice handling for that. Remember, in the grand scheme of things, a set of tires can breath new life into an otherwise dull car!
Of course, this is simply my personal opinion. Your experience will differ. I have nearly 350,000 miles in Porsches (mostly 911s) since 1974. About 70,000 miles of that are in my current ride, an 06 S Cabriolet, which I picked up at Zuffenhausen with 7 kilometers on the gauge.
10-14-2012, 10:22 PM
#21
Rocky Mountain High
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It's a really good post and a great point. I am running Michelin PS2 N3 tires right now for the summer. After a proper 4-wheel alignment, my C4S drives better than it ever has before.
10-15-2012, 02:45 AM
#23
Sumi
If I was running 130MPH+ for extended time periods on Autobahn - I might want N rated. For US street use - Y/W rated and XL load rated I think are fine. I think I could also run my sumis on track for DE - sure PSP's would lap faster - but can't beat the HTRZIIIs for bang/buck ....
10-15-2012, 02:56 AM
#24
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Funny this comes up - I am just getting ready to replace the tires on my C4S. I need rear tires - fronts still have at least 15k miles on them. The fronts are PS2's - and I was planning on buying rear PS2's to match - but I notice I can get all 4 of the Sumitomoo HTR Z III for less then just the two rear PS2's.
Thoughts on which way to go?
It's my daily driver. Spirited canyon and PCH driving daily...
Thoughts on which way to go?
It's my daily driver. Spirited canyon and PCH driving daily...
10-15-2012, 04:24 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
I am a fellow who buys old affordable yet high quality German cars and keeps cars I enjoy driving. But with 3 cars and 2 drivers the dread 8 year life limit will have me throwing away expensive N rated tires on my two Porches before I wear them out. I drive them - not daily but weekly - and not ever on the tack. And last time I checked there was no place on I-5 405 or I-90 to exceed 100 MPH. SO for me - in the Northwest, a good set of Conti DW on the 968 - and on the C4 DWS suit me just fine. I looked over the Tire-Rack test and picked Wet traction & Price & Ride qualities over Track performance. To each his own, but not every Porsche needs to be raced to be enjoyed.
10-15-2012, 09:20 AM
#26
Parts Specialist
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10-15-2012, 09:40 AM
#27
Rocky Mountain High
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I tried a set of Sumi HTR ZIII tires on my C4S to see what they were like. They seemed fine at first, but they very quickly became loud to the point that I couldn't stand it. I replaced all four at about 14,000 miles and I won't buy them again.
10-15-2012, 10:19 AM
#28
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I have N- spec Conti's, which i like alot but I believe are no longer available. Thats ok because the rears are new with probably 1000 miles. I should be good till spring of 2014 before i need new tires.
I agree in the USA for street driving non N rated are probably fine. And if my car was a dd I would probably use non N rated tires. I have a good freind who is on his 3rd porsche and he has never replaced tires with N rated. It is a matter of choice. It also depends on how you drive. I want my car to be extream even if it is not driven that way often.
Today if I needed tires I would buy N rated, either PS2 or P zero. I would buy continue to buy the conti's if they were still made.
The only issue or question I have is as tire technology improves why are the newer tires not made in the size to fit older cars? i.e. there are Conti 3's that are N rated but not in the same size as the 2's were. I would assume that the 3 is a better tire than the 2, more updated testing and technology. I believe the newest tire for early 996's is the PS2. The other tires are all 10 year old technology. One indy advised me to use P zero's over the ps2 he felt the early 996 were not set up for the grip of the ps2 and they were a waste of money. I understood it to mean the tires had more grip then the suspension could utilize.
I agree in the USA for street driving non N rated are probably fine. And if my car was a dd I would probably use non N rated tires. I have a good freind who is on his 3rd porsche and he has never replaced tires with N rated. It is a matter of choice. It also depends on how you drive. I want my car to be extream even if it is not driven that way often.
Today if I needed tires I would buy N rated, either PS2 or P zero. I would buy continue to buy the conti's if they were still made.
The only issue or question I have is as tire technology improves why are the newer tires not made in the size to fit older cars? i.e. there are Conti 3's that are N rated but not in the same size as the 2's were. I would assume that the 3 is a better tire than the 2, more updated testing and technology. I believe the newest tire for early 996's is the PS2. The other tires are all 10 year old technology. One indy advised me to use P zero's over the ps2 he felt the early 996 were not set up for the grip of the ps2 and they were a waste of money. I understood it to mean the tires had more grip then the suspension could utilize.
10-15-2012, 11:10 AM
#29
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I put Falken FK-452 all round on my 1999 C2 earlier this year as I didn't feel the whole N thing to be too important to my very mundane driving. Drive to work. Visit friends. Never push very hard or go on track.
But I'm not convinced the rears are stiff enough for a 911. The back of the car has always felt a bit "floaty" since fitting them. The car had N-rated Continentals when I bought it so I intend to go back to those once the Falkens are spent.
One minor point about the Falkens, the 265 section rears are a good 20mm narrower than the 265 section Contis that came off. Quite odd, and gives them a slightly stretched look that I don't like. The 225s on the front are fine and sit nicely.
But I'm not convinced the rears are stiff enough for a 911. The back of the car has always felt a bit "floaty" since fitting them. The car had N-rated Continentals when I bought it so I intend to go back to those once the Falkens are spent.
One minor point about the Falkens, the 265 section rears are a good 20mm narrower than the 265 section Contis that came off. Quite odd, and gives them a slightly stretched look that I don't like. The 225s on the front are fine and sit nicely.
10-15-2012, 11:36 AM
#30
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I believe N-rated tires are specifically designed to match the rear weight bias of the 911.
Tire Rack has a good overview.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=26
I ran the Sumitomo HTRZIII on my old 968 and was very happy with them. Since buying the 996 I have stuck with N-rated Contis.
Tire Rack has a good overview.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=26
I ran the Sumitomo HTRZIII on my old 968 and was very happy with them. Since buying the 996 I have stuck with N-rated Contis.
Please don't take my reply wrong, I'm not saying that the statement is wrong, I just don't get it. In fact I didn't see anything in the Tire Rack overview that said anything about weight bias either.
Mick