Copple

First off I just want to say that while I post infrequently I read this forum all of the time. Lots or great advice and a great resource.

So here's my story. Went for a nice spirited drive yesterday through the mountains to meet my dad for some shooting and male bonding. Beautiful day for top down motoring. About 40 minutes into the drive home I heard a 'fluttering' sound from the engine compartment, the car displayed a 'PSM Failure' light and the car shut down. I pulled off to a stop on the side of the road, popped the engine cover and looked for anything obvious wrong, looked under the car for leaks and anything out of the ordinary. Saw nothing out of the ordinary so attempted to restart, heard the fluttering again so stopped everything and called for a tow.

The dealer called this afternoon and the cars timing advanced, vales collided with piston resulting in chaos and mayhem, and now their opinion is that I need remanufactured engine (to the tune of $20k + install). I will say that this dealer has always been good to work with, and I realize they don't rebuild engines so this may be their only option. But I'm looking for opinions and advice from anyone that's either been in this situation or can help. Can I have an engine where there is obvious valve damage rebuilt by someone else? Should I ship the car somewhere for non-dealer rates and service? I'll post some more thoughts about what happened and the car in a bit after I get another beer from the fridge...

txhokie4life

Sorry to here you have engine issues

What year is your car?

Any engine codes?

Did they boroscope or compression check?m

Mike

Copple

Some details about the car:
2004 C2 Cab, a little over 64k miles, always serviced and maintained according to Porsche's recommendations. The 60k service was done by the dealer last August. While I do drive it like it's ment to be enjoyed, I always wait for the oil to warm up before going into the higher revs. I have never over revved the engine, and if I downshift I'm very good at heel/toe and double clutching. Again, no over-revving or zinging of the engine here. When the engine went out on me I was just cruising along in 5th gear. There has been no oil leaks at all, just went out to the garage to double check and it's clean where I normally park the 996. Up to this point the car has been perfectly reliable. No oil or smoke from the car after the failure either.

Please feel free to ask any questions or give me your thoughts or advice!

Copple

Not sure of any codes, I can find out tomorrow. They are going to check to see if Porsche will provide any assistance for the newer engine. When the failure happened I only got the 'PSM Failure' warning. No check engine light. The flashing 'Check Engine' light was the first thing I looked for and was relieved when I didn't see. They said there was no compression, although not sure if they actually tested for this. They did say that when they turned the engine over, assuming manually, that they could hear the loose pieces in the engine. I don't thing they used a boroscope. The service manager said the only way to really see what caused the failure would be to take the engine down to see where things started.

Ahsai

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like you take good care of your car and warm it up properly. Just curious do you change your engine oil every 15k miles per Porsche reco or you do it more frequently?

Byprodriver

If I were you I would go to the dealership (unannounced) & tell them you want to see the car & have them SHOW you how they came to this conclusion. Then tell them you want to see the oil filter & check for metal. IF there is lots of magnetic metal in the filter (bring a magnet) you know that metal has been thru the engine & it must be disassembled for a rebuild. In any event see if Porsche will give you an "allowance" but I wouldn't count on it.

Search this forum for engine rebuilding options.

Copple

I'll stop by the dealership sometime tomorrow and look at the car. Might be nice to help me visualize what they are describing.

As to the oil changes. It's a 3rd car for us and we do approximately 5-7k miles a year. Oil changes are done once a year. The car has never burned any oil before.

trendy996

Why would there be metal in the filter if the valves collided?

Imo000

If the timing jumped, there will be a trouble code, showing this. If they can hear parts rattling during cranking, then they are probably broken valves. If they checked for compression, the spark plugs are out. The broken valves will smash the enf ofnthe plug so it will be fairly easy to see this. If this is the case, the engine needs to come out.

Byprodriver

There may or may not be, but if there is for whatever reason the engine will need to be completely disassembled & cleaned before reassembly, & it sounds like his dealership can't do that.

jeneric996

I am curious about the fluttering sound. Did it sound like a loose bolt rattling around?
I ask because it could be the intermediate shaft (ims) bolt that came loose. This could then cause the camshaft to lose its timing, and causing the valves to collide with the pistons.

Check to see if there is metal shavings in the oil. It would most likely be from the ims bearing.

EBS_Don

Recently, an old friend of mine thought his motor was "shot" as it was suddenly down on power, CEL on, etc. His local dealer gave him a similar story so he called me up. After getting the engine in hand it was actually just a loose intake cam bolt which bent most of the valves in that head. Ultimately, he wanted to go through with a complete build since the cam sprocket ground away part of the cam and there was some very fine metal in the oil. It could have been MUCH worse. Get your car and/or engine into the hands of someone knowledgable before making any big decisions.

healey1968

I don't know how adventurous you are, but can you have them manually turn over the engine 720 deg? You should be able to hear the interference if it really is there.

Ben

Pac996

If the valves punched through the piston tops shattered metal would travel into the crankcase I'd think.

If it's a cracked head its still going to be a high price running 9000+ for removal with some more in whatever parts and labor adding up so probably 15000 for one head at the dealer. 5000 extra you have good stuff all around with 2 years of coverage. What knows what wants to go next.

It's probably best to sell the car. I went with a rebuilt by porsche engine. I don't think the rebuilt is as powerfull as the old engine. If the cars in great shape maybe store it as a project car.

Copple

As to the fluttering sound I heard, my first thought was that a belt came loose or intake hose popped off. I installed a new water pump about 4k miles ago, so first check was that belt which was fine. I didn't hear the 'marbles in the engine' sound most people think is associated with IMS so I was pretty hopeful that it was something relatively minor.

I guess my next question is what would everyone do next? I can't justify 20k for a new engine, 15k seems excessive to me. I live in South Carolina, is there a reputable independent Porsche shop close by for a second look that you would recommend? If I go to see the car outright what is it worth (full leather, sport exhaust, 24k in factory options)?

Thanks for all of the responses. If rebuilt engines were still in the 10k I would go that route no questions asked...