Major Disappointment With PSS vs PS2
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Cardigan Millionaire
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From: somewhere in the world with carmen sandiego
Looking at his original reading vs. his finished results, the tech did a decent job, camber was fairly close on both sides, toe was bang on to zero etc. They did good adjustments, just not the adjustments he was looking for.
The way I see it is that now a days >80% of porsche drivers drive their car because they have a little money, the badge says porsche and they want a status symbol. Why do you think the Panamera and Cayenne sell so well? Because they are the epitome of sports cars? Because this 40yr old woman taking her kid to the soccer game wants to stop by the track on the way there? Somehow I doubt it. I am guessing that 80%+ of porsche buyers looks for something a little quick off the line, but would rather have a comfortable ride versus a car that rides a little stiffer but handles like it's on rails. So that alignment that the OP received probably would have been acceptable and even wanted by over 80% of the Porsche owning demographic.
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Bypro and Dennis C, always good to have input, however if your read the entire thread, specifically post #1 and post #10 you'll see the alignment was performed by a Porsche Dealer, and the before and after alignment readings were not only provided to me, but I posted them in this thread. I might be missing the point to your posts, if so please clarify, again the beauty of these forum... lots of different perspectives and ideas.
The car is going back in for an alignment adjustment on the 25th, hope to have final thoughts on the 27th.
Thanks all.
The car is going back in for an alignment adjustment on the 25th, hope to have final thoughts on the 27th.
Thanks all.
Burning Brakes
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From: Richmond, VA
I think they meant to point out that you did indeed do it all right, so it was easy for us to have useful input. Without your data, it would all be speculation. I was pretty pissed when I picked up my Mini Cooper Clubman last year, after putting new Michelin Pilot A/S Plus tires on it, and had the BMW dealer do the alignment and some recall work, and AFTER the fact tell me.."Oh, the printer for the Hunter isn't working, so we don't have any before & after numbers for you". So I have nothing to reference to. I'm not sure if Byprodriver read my post about the limited usefulness of the before reading with new tires and the need to compensate camber for wear when looking at the numbers, but I feel jordanturbo correctly added to Dennis post that it is important to use a shop that can actually USE your input and give you what you are looking for, instead of the standard "We do Porsches all day, and this is the right way to do it." The VAST majority (including me on my non Porsche cars) just "get an alignment", not a sporty, or aggressive, or track alignment. Alignment, by default to most Americans is to have a stable safe ride and minimum tire wear. Not high speed cornering or max stability at 100MPH+. Until I did the math and measured my own camber wear onthe 996, I didn't realize that there would be some benefit to getting another alignment when the tires are half worn, and the camber has increased because of that. The wear will keep increasing at a faster rate as the camber increases, so in the case of $900 worth of rear tires, it might make sense to pay $150 for another alignment if that gets you another 5k safe miles. I'll need to discuss this with my indie.
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Got my car back Friday, new alignment, will post the new numbers Monday when I get back in the office. Used more or less the GT3 street alignment numbers found in the FAQ section of this excellent forum! Thank you to all who commented, made suggestions etc.!
Final conclusion: Michellin Pilot Super Sports are great, the neutral alignment was to blame for the "dull nose" and "unplanted rear end" feel. I'd say, factoring the thicker new tread block and the need for some additional tire pressure tweaks the car is 85-90% back to normal. Strange to say that I'd have hoped the car with new rubber and fresh alignment would be 100% better.
The Porsche dealer did end up charging me full price for the second alignment, i had hoped they would have "worked with me" but, lesson learned, I'll be very clear in the future what my driving intentions are... Wether I'm asked or not. $400.00 of alignment is a disappointment, but I almost shipped the PSS back for more expensive PS2's which would have set me back an additional $800.00 after freight and mount and balancing. Then still would have needed the second $200.00 alignment.
Thanks again for the help.
Final conclusion: Michellin Pilot Super Sports are great, the neutral alignment was to blame for the "dull nose" and "unplanted rear end" feel. I'd say, factoring the thicker new tread block and the need for some additional tire pressure tweaks the car is 85-90% back to normal. Strange to say that I'd have hoped the car with new rubber and fresh alignment would be 100% better.
The Porsche dealer did end up charging me full price for the second alignment, i had hoped they would have "worked with me" but, lesson learned, I'll be very clear in the future what my driving intentions are... Wether I'm asked or not. $400.00 of alignment is a disappointment, but I almost shipped the PSS back for more expensive PS2's which would have set me back an additional $800.00 after freight and mount and balancing. Then still would have needed the second $200.00 alignment.
Thanks again for the help.
Cardigan Millionaire
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From: somewhere in the world with carmen sandiego
Glad to hear the positive results of the re alignment! I knew that would solve a majority of the problems you were having. You say that you are only at 85-90% what is keeping it from being 100%? any ideas for a remedy? How does this setup feel compared to the previous tire and alignment set up?
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For those interested, my revised alignment.
Jordanturbo, it might relate to a suspension "tuned" for rears that were 275-40-18's with the new tire purchase I changed to a close to stock 275-35-18. If the suspension was dialed in to the larger sidewall and overall more weight, my feeling is the subtile difference I'm feeling is related to that change? I suppose now I might need to look at the sway bar and drop link setup, which is over my head... without this forum for advise.
Thanks.
Jordanturbo, it might relate to a suspension "tuned" for rears that were 275-40-18's with the new tire purchase I changed to a close to stock 275-35-18. If the suspension was dialed in to the larger sidewall and overall more weight, my feeling is the subtile difference I'm feeling is related to that change? I suppose now I might need to look at the sway bar and drop link setup, which is over my head... without this forum for advise.
Thanks.
Burning Brakes
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From: Richmond, VA
Interesting that all the new initial cambers were slightly more aggressive than the previous finals, yet the toes were all less aggressive, and both at the same dealer. Nice balance on the new numbers, I'll be getting mine done this Friday, and looking at the same numbers to go for.
