Suspension upgrade for track
02-01-2012, 01:26 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
KW V3, that's what I put on my 02 C2, not too harsh for road and amazing on track. Good enough for Manthey, good enough for me, without spending $$$$ obviously.
02-01-2012, 08:58 PM
#17
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
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Shawn:
You might want to check with Chris at LC Motorsports. He is on top of his game and might be able to help you with MCS or something else for coilovers/shocks. He knows his stuff and might have an in for you regarding someone who is switching out their current set-up.
Just a thought.
You might want to check with Chris at LC Motorsports. He is on top of his game and might be able to help you with MCS or something else for coilovers/shocks. He knows his stuff and might have an in for you regarding someone who is switching out their current set-up.
Just a thought.
02-01-2012, 09:14 PM
#18
Former Vendor
Actually, I might be able to hook Shawn up with a used set of PSS10's... Currently, we are reworking them with some higher spring rates (still streetable an below a need to revavle)... The owner might be convinced to sell them (as he really would like the MCS dampers). Give me a call and let's chat. 
02-03-2012, 10:58 AM
#21
A few more thoughts in the mix: Whatever you do, make sure your components are balanced, and that your car is properly aligned in proportion to the components, tires and wheels, and that ride height, corner weighting and balancing are properly proportioned as well. One of the benefits of the x74 is that it is an integrated package, each component designed to mesh with the rest, and with specific alignment and height specifications to dial everything in together. I'm learning the hard way that balancing and proportionality are critical.
I've been working with Chris Whaley to define a better spring package for the PSS10s for focused track use--you can go up to 700 lbs with no revalve. BTW, no noise with street use (I've had the Bilsteins on for about 1.5 yrs).
The stock PSS10 mains and tenders provide weights/rates of 255 F and 515 R. That's "fine" for street use, and ok for fun track days with stock sways, or marginally thicker/stiffer sways. Those rates are not good for very stiff sways and more "aggressive" cornering. The result is an unbalanced car--very bad in a 911. There are many other factors, but matching springs and sways for corner entry and mid-corner to exit management are at the top of the list--thinking about track time in particular.
A previous post mentioned looking at sways first, align the car and see where that gets you. That's actually better initial advice--in my personal view--than X, or Y or Z coilovers are great or the best, etc. The reason is that its important to think carefully about the type of driving your going to do (track vs street; DE enjoyment vs dialing out every second possible from corner to corner). Again, my own opinion here, but consider looking more closely at what current handling characteristics or dynamics you want to change, improve, remove, etc. That's the real trick, and, unfortunately, is not a simple as slapping on a nice set of coilovers, getting a "blind" alignment and heading off. You may certainly see some "improvements" in feel and certain handling characteristics under limited and more manageable circumstances. But, if you then put the car on the track, you may have an unpleasant surprise. Hopefully not, but it pays to plan and work step by step.
Ok, one guy's diatribe. As they say, YMMV.
I've been working with Chris Whaley to define a better spring package for the PSS10s for focused track use--you can go up to 700 lbs with no revalve. BTW, no noise with street use (I've had the Bilsteins on for about 1.5 yrs).
The stock PSS10 mains and tenders provide weights/rates of 255 F and 515 R. That's "fine" for street use, and ok for fun track days with stock sways, or marginally thicker/stiffer sways. Those rates are not good for very stiff sways and more "aggressive" cornering. The result is an unbalanced car--very bad in a 911. There are many other factors, but matching springs and sways for corner entry and mid-corner to exit management are at the top of the list--thinking about track time in particular.
A previous post mentioned looking at sways first, align the car and see where that gets you. That's actually better initial advice--in my personal view--than X, or Y or Z coilovers are great or the best, etc. The reason is that its important to think carefully about the type of driving your going to do (track vs street; DE enjoyment vs dialing out every second possible from corner to corner). Again, my own opinion here, but consider looking more closely at what current handling characteristics or dynamics you want to change, improve, remove, etc. That's the real trick, and, unfortunately, is not a simple as slapping on a nice set of coilovers, getting a "blind" alignment and heading off. You may certainly see some "improvements" in feel and certain handling characteristics under limited and more manageable circumstances. But, if you then put the car on the track, you may have an unpleasant surprise. Hopefully not, but it pays to plan and work step by step.
Ok, one guy's diatribe. As they say, YMMV.
02-03-2012, 01:07 PM
#22
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I happen to have a 996C4 with a modified PSS10 system that I am currently getting ready to sell. I changing my car from a street/track to a track car and will be switching over to the MCS system with the help of Chris Whaley.
The rears are the the standard PSS10's with 515lb setup but the fronts were reworked last year by TPC. TPC changed out the front 200lb springs and put in 500lb Eibach springs, reworked the valving and added the TPC monoball camber plates. The standard 200lb springs are too soft for a C4 but with the new 500lb springs its now much more balanced.
Let me know if you might be interested.
Marc
The rears are the the standard PSS10's with 515lb setup but the fronts were reworked last year by TPC. TPC changed out the front 200lb springs and put in 500lb Eibach springs, reworked the valving and added the TPC monoball camber plates. The standard 200lb springs are too soft for a C4 but with the new 500lb springs its now much more balanced.
Let me know if you might be interested.
Marc
02-03-2012, 02:22 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hey guys,
Thanks for continuing the conversation. I do need to give Chris a call and follow up with Gert via telephone.
Sprint, I understand what you're saying in regard to a well design and integrated system. That's the primary reason I'm interested in a non-adjustable setup that has been well engineered and tested from the start. I will say that one of the reasons I'm hesitant to consider revalved or modified setups is that I have no idea what the experience level, engineering competence, or testing capabilities of the people doing the work are. If you tell me Porsche designed the system I'm on board. If you tell me a company like KW did the testing with a seven post shock dyno and was later used in the 996 with the fastest time around the ring... I'm on board.
I'm in the process of switching out the swaybars so I am interested to see how everything works together, but as I said, the shocks are dead and need replacing.
The KW Variant 1 setup is on par with the X74 setup in terms of price. Does anyone have any concerns about this setup (assuming I can't get my hands on the X74)? It has 600 lbs springs in the rear and progressive springs up front (not sure on the range). I need to gather a little more information on the setup.
-Shawn
Thanks for continuing the conversation. I do need to give Chris a call and follow up with Gert via telephone.
Sprint, I understand what you're saying in regard to a well design and integrated system. That's the primary reason I'm interested in a non-adjustable setup that has been well engineered and tested from the start. I will say that one of the reasons I'm hesitant to consider revalved or modified setups is that I have no idea what the experience level, engineering competence, or testing capabilities of the people doing the work are. If you tell me Porsche designed the system I'm on board. If you tell me a company like KW did the testing with a seven post shock dyno and was later used in the 996 with the fastest time around the ring... I'm on board.
I'm in the process of switching out the swaybars so I am interested to see how everything works together, but as I said, the shocks are dead and need replacing.
The KW Variant 1 setup is on par with the X74 setup in terms of price. Does anyone have any concerns about this setup (assuming I can't get my hands on the X74)? It has 600 lbs springs in the rear and progressive springs up front (not sure on the range). I need to gather a little more information on the setup.
-Shawn
02-03-2012, 03:51 PM
#25
Former Vendor
Shawn, If you work out a deal with Marc these will be a great option. I would be willing to have Marc send them here ... look them over and work with you to get the car squared away. These are a nice set of PSS10's.
02-03-2012, 06:20 PM
#27
One additional--important--factor to look at is the spread of your spring rates. If/when you do connect with Chris, or anyone else your talking about this with who understands the 911/996, you may hear them state a preference for a front to back spread of 150-200 lbs. That's a data point, something to talk about, and something to look at when shopping for coilovers. With high end coilovers, you choose your own spring package; with kits, you obviously get what comes with the package. You might be surprised at the spread . . . Factor in a possible spring change when pricing your options.
BTW, you can get a Bilstein factory rebuild or revalve for $125.00 per shock (facility in CA).
BTW, you can get a Bilstein factory rebuild or revalve for $125.00 per shock (facility in CA).
