TideRace

I have to pick up and install a set of upper control arms soon so that I don't shave all the inside tread off another $1,000 set of PS2's in the next 5,000 miles. I was going to pick up the RSS units. Price has dropped to $625 although you have to buy dust boots which are another $40? (BTW - that's getting a pretty good price per pound for a few ounces of injection molded rubber).

http://rss.rpmware.com/rss/rss_adjus.../i-398274.aspx

I was also taking a look at the Champions which have a unique hex bolt locking sleeve to lock in the adjustment so the setting doesn't drift on the installer as they're trying to lock everything down. That little locking mechanism looks like it may introduce a weak point in the system though. A set of four of these is $895.

http://www.championmotorsport.com/pr...s-uprlnk-1.htm

Just wondering if any of you have any pro/con experiences with either brand, or another brand altogether.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Zookie

I bought these from Mike http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...trol-arms.html

Paid considerbily less than $595... PM him.

As for Other Brands. RSS is Proven, Champion looks very sweet and im sure its Top Quaility. as for AP i have heard of a few guys on 6speed had theirs Break and AP/Vivid dint stand up to it. There is also GMG & Tarret who are respected Vendors, so it must be Top Quality

philooo

The champion adjustment look very different from the other guys, I think it looks like a better choice if you ask me, but cost is almost double.

Tarett really offer a great quality product, I'd go with them if I had to buy those. I bought the drop links from them and they are top notch.

Zookie

well the Adjustment is teh same. Its the little Adder of the Locking Screw which locks the Adjustment.

AudiOn19s

I don't think the upper arms should be considered a camber solution to fix tire wear.

If you're not paying someone to re-set the bump steer curve at the rear of your car (hours and hours of labor with specialized equipment) these should not be installed at anything other than the stock length. If you chagne the length of them from stock you will mess up the bump steer curve at the rear of the car and likely cause driveability issues particularly at the track.

The real benefit is they have monoball ends and get rid of rubber in the rear suspension.

Andy

Zookie

thats why you need Adjustable Toe Links to go with the Adjustable Dogbones

Capt. Obvious

Camber isn't necessarily what kills tires, it's the toe-in that is usually caused as a byproduct of the camber.

Unless your car is lowered significantly, you should be able to get the camber to somewhere around -2 degrees and then get the toe-in back in check with a set of adjustable toe links.

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

TideRace

Isn't bump steer mostly a function of front suspension?

AudiOn19s

bump steer refers to the amount of toe change throughout the travel of the suspension. Happens both front and back. Toe is set on an alignmnet rack with the car sitting static, but as you put load on the car those toe figures change mid corner.

Best way to keep it as stable as possible is to keep toe arms as close to level with the ground as possible. That's why alot of the adjustable toe arms that are offered also have an option for bump steer correction in lowered cars, basically it's a spacer at the hub mount for the toe arm that spaces the arm back down to compensate for a lowered car.

With the upper dog bones working as an "A" arm design but being separate pieces it could be easy for someone who didn't know any better on an alignment rack to move one more than the other and in the process changing the whole bump steer curve of the car. Adjustable toe arm will bring it back into spec on the rack but you might have much more toe change as the suspension moves through it's available travel as a result.

If you get dog bones and want them both a little loger than stock to bring camber back into spec you can still do this, you just have to be very attentive to detail in the process of setting lengths. I'd determine lenghts before I put them on the car, lock them in place and then still use the lower eccentric in the subframe for final camber adjustments. I wouldn't personally touch the lengh of the dog bones once they were on the car to be certain they don't move at all.

I've got adjustable dog bones on my car, they're nice to have back there as I don't have any rubber in the rear suspension and the feel is amazing, Not trying to scare you away from them just trying to make sure you understand that they can cause handling headaches if you're not attentive to details.

Andy

Capt. Obvious

So with that said, do you think someone whose car is lowered quite a bit and wants to get their camber somewhere around -1.5 to -2.0ish degrees (while keeping toe at roughly zero) would be better off with the adjustable dog bones, or the adjustable toe links?

Zookie

Both to get Correct Spec. Dogbones will only help with Camber but your tires will still Wear because the Toe is still Messed up...

Capt. Obvious

Well yes, both would obviously be ideal. But from a bang for buck standpoint (read: my wife would kill me if I bought $1000 of adjustable control arms at once...), what would be the best route to go if you can only buy one or the other at this point in time?

TideRace

That's a great explanation and really helps me to visualize what's going on back there. Thanks Andy!

philooo

I am interested to know the answer to that !

If you are ok with additional camber,

Do you need the dogbones or toe arm in order to have the correct toe ?
or
Are those things only needed for people who want to lower their car and bring the alignment back to stock, meaning without camber and toe in ?