what is the proper seating height fro the track ? eyes as high as possible ?
10-04-2011, 03:49 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Phil, If your 6' tall I would hop in the car with the helmet you intend to use first, then decide how much clearance you need to be safe. I cannot sit straight up in my car otherwise my helmet is pinned to the headliner.
10-04-2011, 07:54 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
with the standard rails and the gt3 seats I do have to remove the cushion to fit, and I think I have 1/2 an inch above my head. I think I need an additional inch of clearance.
I did purchase a set of bk mount that suppress the rails but now I think I might be too low
I think I'll have to see them and buy the bk mounts that go with the slider and I should be right where I want to be.
I did purchase a set of bk mount that suppress the rails but now I think I might be too low
I think I'll have to see them and buy the bk mounts that go with the slider and I should be right where I want to be.
10-04-2011, 10:16 PM
#18
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
One of the first things you learn at the track is to keep your eyes up off of the road surface and focused way further ahead than you are used to. Having a high seating position that allows you to see the corners of the car better does nothing for this. Sitting lower in the car tends to encourage you to look further out since you can no longer see the stuff you are used to looking at when you drive on the street. Lower is better imho.
10-05-2011, 12:20 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I understand that you are joking but you would be amazed how the right technique can help you in a minute if you know it or it can take you years to acquire on your own.
For example would you go skiing for the first time without a basic lesson ? of course you can, but why skipping the 4 hour training that will save you weeks of learning.
For example would you go skiing for the first time without a basic lesson ? of course you can, but why skipping the 4 hour training that will save you weeks of learning.
10-05-2011, 12:29 AM
#22
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
yea I wear a race uniform..its called jeans and a light cotton shirt, special shoes (merrell moc jungle's I wear to work and am comfortable in) and eat fried grits before every race! (well maybe not the grits but i drink a LOT of juice and Gatorade at the track and no alcohol/beer 3 days before any event. Good nights sleep...maybe a few other things.........
now I miss being at the track, but i had a long dry spell with the way my year ended due to a private event being cancelled and then car repairs and kids schedule's - I get the 15th and the 30th of this month in the passenger seat at the baby track and that rounds out my year....
Think i'll go shopping for brake pads or something, now I am depressed
now I miss being at the track, but i had a long dry spell with the way my year ended due to a private event being cancelled and then car repairs and kids schedule's - I get the 15th and the 30th of this month in the passenger seat at the baby track and that rounds out my year....
Think i'll go shopping for brake pads or something, now I am depressed
10-05-2011, 01:27 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
One of the first things you learn at the track is to keep your eyes up off of the road surface and focused way further ahead than you are used to. Having a high seating position that allows you to see the corners of the car better does nothing for this. Sitting lower in the car tends to encourage you to look further out since you can no longer see the stuff you are used to looking at when you drive on the street. Lower is better imho.
10-05-2011, 02:06 AM
#24
so how does one go about getting track time? I'd love to go on a track just to have some fun, but it must be pretty costly, no?
Yes I was kidding but also do respect that there must be technique beyond what I can appreciate. Just giving a hard time about the uniform and breakfast comment.
Yes I was kidding but also do respect that there must be technique beyond what I can appreciate. Just giving a hard time about the uniform and breakfast comment.
10-05-2011, 03:08 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
You want your butt as low as you can go. The biggest comunicator in what the car is doing is your butt with the seat its in. By sitting high its like sitting on top of a ball sitting in your seat, you'll be thrown around by the rotation of the car about the roll axis rather than feeling the lateral motion of the car around the corner.
Its good to see your marks and the corner of your car early on. but you should quickly develop a feel for where your car is without the need to look at it. It will become second nature, after all how often can you pull into a parking lot and not hit the wheelstop or the curb? thats the feel you need, you don't even want to think about it, its automatic.
So IMHO its way more important than you would think. Try lowering your seat all the way down at your next event....you'll feel the difference. PS, if you want to start getting some seat time, get a membership at your local PCA or NASA, and sign up for a DE or autocross, each is set up to start from zero.
Its good to see your marks and the corner of your car early on. but you should quickly develop a feel for where your car is without the need to look at it. It will become second nature, after all how often can you pull into a parking lot and not hit the wheelstop or the curb? thats the feel you need, you don't even want to think about it, its automatic.
So IMHO its way more important than you would think. Try lowering your seat all the way down at your next event....you'll feel the difference. PS, if you want to start getting some seat time, get a membership at your local PCA or NASA, and sign up for a DE or autocross, each is set up to start from zero.
10-05-2011, 04:03 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Presumably you would still want to see over the dash in your quest to be as low as possible.... otherwise remove the seat, put in a shell and sit on the floor.... 
Unless you are a real shorty and weigh a ton the difference between sitting as high as you can and as as low as you can is probably only a couple inches at most and we are only talking about very subtle and negligable differences in overall CoG . Yet an inch of extra height can make an appreciable difference to visibility. The idea that you will be thrown about and loose feel through your butt just by being an inch or so higher is a bit of an exageration particularly if you have a good seat and harness.
Most important is you feel secure and comfortable in the car, that your arms and legs are positioned correctly to control the car and you can see clearly. If you can sit as low as possible and still achieve that then well and good, but if you are starting to limit your visibility and driving position just in the name of the lowest CoG I would personally move the seat higher and enjoy better visibility, but thats just me. I like to see whats going on around me with other cars as well as down the track.
Best advice is probably to ignore the debate and try different seat height positions for yourself and see what works best for you.
Unless you are a real shorty and weigh a ton the difference between sitting as high as you can and as as low as you can is probably only a couple inches at most and we are only talking about very subtle and negligable differences in overall CoG . Yet an inch of extra height can make an appreciable difference to visibility. The idea that you will be thrown about and loose feel through your butt just by being an inch or so higher is a bit of an exageration particularly if you have a good seat and harness.
Most important is you feel secure and comfortable in the car, that your arms and legs are positioned correctly to control the car and you can see clearly. If you can sit as low as possible and still achieve that then well and good, but if you are starting to limit your visibility and driving position just in the name of the lowest CoG I would personally move the seat higher and enjoy better visibility, but thats just me. I like to see whats going on around me with other cars as well as down the track.
Best advice is probably to ignore the debate and try different seat height positions for yourself and see what works best for you.
10-05-2011, 07:36 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think I will sacrifice one track day using the lowest position and see how it feels and I will bring my seat sliders with me in case I feel I am really too low to the ground and I'll make the switch over there. It is rather quick to change the setup.
The cool thing with the low seat is that you can have your legs a bit straighter also but then the steering wheels gets a bit high up, I wish the steering column would adjust vertically, can't believe it doesn't on a car this expensive ...
The cool thing with the low seat is that you can have your legs a bit straighter also but then the steering wheels gets a bit high up, I wish the steering column would adjust vertically, can't believe it doesn't on a car this expensive ...
10-05-2011, 01:48 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Give it a try, as you drop the seat roll the seat bottom back to support your thighs, I think you'll find it much more comfortable and connected.
Actually this does make a huge difference. 1" is a lot and 2" is huge. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the cg of the car or weight dist. but where your primary point of feedback (your butt) is in relationship to the roll center (not CG) of the car. Most properly set up racecars the factory seat rails are cut out and new pan mounted to allow the shell to sit practically on the floor. It has as much to do with getting the driver in the correct position and feel as it does lowering the CG and headroom for the cage. In all my race/track cars my eye level is about the top of the dash, including factory race cars.
Under no circumstances should you be driving a racecar in traffic visually gauging your distance to other cars off your fender, you have to come to know the limits with only peripheral vision, as mike said above you need to be heads and eyes up, you don't want to be fixated on the fender but looking out to the track out or apex a turn or more ahead...that will come with seat time....just my .02...
Actually this does make a huge difference. 1" is a lot and 2" is huge. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the cg of the car or weight dist. but where your primary point of feedback (your butt) is in relationship to the roll center (not CG) of the car. Most properly set up racecars the factory seat rails are cut out and new pan mounted to allow the shell to sit practically on the floor. It has as much to do with getting the driver in the correct position and feel as it does lowering the CG and headroom for the cage. In all my race/track cars my eye level is about the top of the dash, including factory race cars.
Under no circumstances should you be driving a racecar in traffic visually gauging your distance to other cars off your fender, you have to come to know the limits with only peripheral vision, as mike said above you need to be heads and eyes up, you don't want to be fixated on the fender but looking out to the track out or apex a turn or more ahead...that will come with seat time....just my .02...
10-05-2011, 02:09 PM
#29
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You want your butt as low as you can go. The biggest comunicator in what the car is doing is your butt with the seat its in. By sitting high its like sitting on top of a ball sitting in your seat, you'll be thrown around by the rotation of the car about the roll axis rather than feeling the lateral motion of the car around the corner.
Its good to see your marks and the corner of your car early on. but you should quickly develop a feel for where your car is without the need to look at it. It will become second nature, after all how often can you pull into a parking lot and not hit the wheelstop or the curb? thats the feel you need, you don't even want to think about it, its automatic.
So IMHO its way more important than you would think. Try lowering your seat all the way down at your next event....you'll feel the difference. PS, if you want to start getting some seat time, get a membership at your local PCA or NASA, and sign up for a DE or autocross, each is set up to start from zero.
Its good to see your marks and the corner of your car early on. but you should quickly develop a feel for where your car is without the need to look at it. It will become second nature, after all how often can you pull into a parking lot and not hit the wheelstop or the curb? thats the feel you need, you don't even want to think about it, its automatic.
So IMHO its way more important than you would think. Try lowering your seat all the way down at your next event....you'll feel the difference. PS, if you want to start getting some seat time, get a membership at your local PCA or NASA, and sign up for a DE or autocross, each is set up to start from zero.
Give it a try, as you drop the seat roll the seat bottom back to support your thighs, I think you'll find it much more comfortable and connected.
Actually this does make a huge difference. 1" is a lot and 2" is huge. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the cg of the car or weight dist. but where your primary point of feedback (your butt) is in relationship to the roll center (not CG) of the car. Most properly set up racecars the factory seat rails are cut out and new pan mounted to allow the shell to sit practically on the floor. It has as much to do with getting the driver in the correct position and feel as it does lowering the CG and headroom for the cage. In all my race/track cars my eye level is about the top of the dash, including factory race cars.
Under no circumstances should you be driving a racecar in traffic visually gauging your distance to other cars off your fender, you have to come to know the limits with only peripheral vision, as mike said above you need to be heads and eyes up, you don't want to be fixated on the fender but looking out to the track out or apex a turn or more ahead...that will come with seat time....just my .02...
Actually this does make a huge difference. 1" is a lot and 2" is huge. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the cg of the car or weight dist. but where your primary point of feedback (your butt) is in relationship to the roll center (not CG) of the car. Most properly set up racecars the factory seat rails are cut out and new pan mounted to allow the shell to sit practically on the floor. It has as much to do with getting the driver in the correct position and feel as it does lowering the CG and headroom for the cage. In all my race/track cars my eye level is about the top of the dash, including factory race cars.
Under no circumstances should you be driving a racecar in traffic visually gauging your distance to other cars off your fender, you have to come to know the limits with only peripheral vision, as mike said above you need to be heads and eyes up, you don't want to be fixated on the fender but looking out to the track out or apex a turn or more ahead...that will come with seat time....just my .02...
There's lots of stuff in driving that's debatable. Honestly, low vs high seating position on the track is just not one of them.