2001 996 Blue Smoke, blown engine?
08-03-2011, 02:54 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Many years ago I tried being a salesman at a new car dealership. Every morning we would watch training films. My favorite showed how to present a full MSRP list price sales contract. When the customer saw the full MSRP price he yells "you must think I'm so kind of idiot to pay full price"! The salesman responds: "No Sir I didn't think you were, but if you were I sure didn't want to miss you!
08-03-2011, 08:39 PM
#32
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great conversation with PCNA. Oddly enough received a survey via email this morning from my recent visit to my dealer. Started to complete the from by selecting the check boxes ranking "poor" to "excellent", gave up after selecting the lowest "poor" 4-5 times then selecting several "excellent" knew I would confuse the results... called the 800 number explained my story received a case# where they'll provide documentation of my disappointing visit to the dealer and myself.
Feels a little better and I didn't want to deal with the BS the dealer might throw at me so went more or less to the top. I have one other dealer in Oregon so I'll be trying them next time I need some "professional" help.
I will be picking up the car from the independent on Friday. Was informed of a high draw from my starter and recall reading a post on this forum about the routing of the power lead to the starter sometimes weakening and causing a power draw. I told them I just want to get the car home at this point so please make notes and we can address this next time in. (Not certain it will go back there though.) Did ask if I would be charged for the overfilled oil change that has caused me considerable grief. Good news I won't be charged for them to drain and correctly refill (sarcastic) but "YES" I will be expected to pay for the original bad oil change. Not a good answer!
During the same original oil change, they also replaced my oil filler downspout as the original was cracked. The alternator was removed for access, then replaced, then failed. $890.00 new Bosch alternator and several hundred dollars to install. The owner asked the tech where he disconnected the power when he disconnected the alternator the tech pointed the the engine bay. Question: Is this an appropriate place to isolate the power so as to not fry the diodes in the alternator? The owner seemed to be expecting he had removed the power lead up front under the hood as the tech reference the power point in engine bay. Just want to confirm the alternator failure was just bad luck not another dumb move by the tech who overfilled my oil.
Not sure why someone responded to the rennlist membership apparently on my behalf. I will be purchasing an annual membership and do have a PayPal account. Just need the password from my wife. Can't afford to not have this resource.
Thanks again.
Feels a little better and I didn't want to deal with the BS the dealer might throw at me so went more or less to the top. I have one other dealer in Oregon so I'll be trying them next time I need some "professional" help.
I will be picking up the car from the independent on Friday. Was informed of a high draw from my starter and recall reading a post on this forum about the routing of the power lead to the starter sometimes weakening and causing a power draw. I told them I just want to get the car home at this point so please make notes and we can address this next time in. (Not certain it will go back there though.) Did ask if I would be charged for the overfilled oil change that has caused me considerable grief. Good news I won't be charged for them to drain and correctly refill (sarcastic) but "YES" I will be expected to pay for the original bad oil change. Not a good answer!
During the same original oil change, they also replaced my oil filler downspout as the original was cracked. The alternator was removed for access, then replaced, then failed. $890.00 new Bosch alternator and several hundred dollars to install. The owner asked the tech where he disconnected the power when he disconnected the alternator the tech pointed the the engine bay. Question: Is this an appropriate place to isolate the power so as to not fry the diodes in the alternator? The owner seemed to be expecting he had removed the power lead up front under the hood as the tech reference the power point in engine bay. Just want to confirm the alternator failure was just bad luck not another dumb move by the tech who overfilled my oil.
Not sure why someone responded to the rennlist membership apparently on my behalf. I will be purchasing an annual membership and do have a PayPal account. Just need the password from my wife. Can't afford to not have this resource.
Thanks again.
08-03-2011, 09:07 PM
#33
Racer
Macster,
i was worried about pay pal too - but i went thru the membership process and you could choose credit card payment too. try it - i believe it will work, follow prompts. i feel proud being a member.
vange
i was worried about pay pal too - but i went thru the membership process and you could choose credit card payment too. try it - i believe it will work, follow prompts. i feel proud being a member.
vange
08-03-2011, 10:19 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Not to change the subject, but you know I'm fed up with Paypal after being a "subscriber" there since they started. I'm seriously thinking about cancelling. Recently they thought my account had been stolen because I made a purchase while overseas. I went through a seemingly insurmountable number of hoops until finally they restored my account. I appreciate their desire to keep my personal info safe, but some people would be appalled at the amount of private information I had to give up to get my account restored (above and beyond the normal questions and info you would supply - apparently for those that do "international" transactions often). Anyways, I feel whatever concerns Macster has and certainly don't like divulging more than I have to in order to keep my identity safe. Perhaps abstinence would be the safer route.
08-03-2011, 10:34 PM
#38
Race Director
08-04-2011, 04:26 PM
#39
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All, what is the correct procedure for power disconnect when servicing? Remove power under hood or in engine bay? Trying to determine if the alternator fry was caused by incorrect power disconnect or just bad luck? I'll be checking the part to determine I was sold a $300-$400 remanufactured Bosch alternator for $900.00. I'll let you know.
Really feel I should be asking for my money back for the poor oil change. I'd kick myself if I'd have done it my self but I paid a pro to do it for me, you'd think it would be done correctly.
Final thoughts would be appreciated! Then this goes behind me with some lessons learned.
ivangene - You asked for some photos! Best one with the bow... the first, some beauty shots then the worst up on the flat bed.
Really feel I should be asking for my money back for the poor oil change. I'd kick myself if I'd have done it my self but I paid a pro to do it for me, you'd think it would be done correctly.
Final thoughts would be appreciated! Then this goes behind me with some lessons learned.
ivangene - You asked for some photos! Best one with the bow... the first, some beauty shots then the worst up on the flat bed.
08-04-2011, 04:48 PM
#40
Race Director
All the times I've watched the techs remove power from one of my cars they disconnect the leads at the battery. I do not recall the order but the order is given in the owners manual and the factory manual.
In some cases the tech will connect a shop 12V power source to keep the car's confort settings alive or to provide some other source of power which is known for instance when trouble shooting a fuel pump to ensure the car's 12V system is not the source of a non-functioning fuel pump.
If one is going to reach into the engine compartment for anything electrically related the power should already be off. Disconnecting the power inside the engine compartment at the starter or some other location is not right. There's too much risk in those tight quarters accidentally shorting something that one shouldn't.
Sincerely,
Macster.
In some cases the tech will connect a shop 12V power source to keep the car's confort settings alive or to provide some other source of power which is known for instance when trouble shooting a fuel pump to ensure the car's 12V system is not the source of a non-functioning fuel pump.
If one is going to reach into the engine compartment for anything electrically related the power should already be off. Disconnecting the power inside the engine compartment at the starter or some other location is not right. There's too much risk in those tight quarters accidentally shorting something that one shouldn't.
Sincerely,
Macster.
08-04-2011, 04:56 PM
#41
They are really f-ing with your car.
The proper was to do a starter removal is with step one.......
Disconnect the battery.
Normally i wouldn't raise hell, but i would since they seem to not have competent mechanics.
They ruined your alternator that was probably in perfect working condition.
I would threaten with the bbb and to spread the word.
About 3 years ago i had a timing belt and water pump replaced at the local toyota stealership. After driving it 5 minutes i smelled something burning. It got my attention, but since they replaced the coolant, i thought that it was that or something left near there that was burning.
I got home and looked under the hood and didn't really see anything out of the ordinary.
The next morning going to work, the battery light came on. great.
I got to work and wiggled all connections to make sure it wasn't something left loose from the mechanic.
The culprit was a fried connection at teh alternator. The tech didn't tighten the bolt and it arced and fried the ceramic under the bolt and it was crushed as i was tightening it as i thought he just forgot to tighten it. There wasn't much force required to do it either.
I went the polite way for the first day or two and was set up in a loaner car while they looked at it.
They told me that the alternator that i replaced 6 months ago wasn't tightened and that was the reason. So they were basically telling that replacing the alternator 6 months ago was my issue where clearly they had to move/remove the alternator to get to the tb/wp.
It took me a few days but eventually i got it replaced.
I even went as far as faxing a copy of the receipt from advance auto so they could exchange it, but advance auto balked as i didn' take it in to get it replaced.
After fighting with them they replaced the alternator and battery for free. I didn't need the battery but they did it anyway.
Your mechanics past history tells me they are in a hurry/not experienced/ don't care etc.
I would find their diagnosis unacceptable and would go half at the very most of the normal replacement cost (parts) since it seems like they messed it up.
The proper was to do a starter removal is with step one.......
Disconnect the battery.
Normally i wouldn't raise hell, but i would since they seem to not have competent mechanics.
They ruined your alternator that was probably in perfect working condition.
I would threaten with the bbb and to spread the word.
About 3 years ago i had a timing belt and water pump replaced at the local toyota stealership. After driving it 5 minutes i smelled something burning. It got my attention, but since they replaced the coolant, i thought that it was that or something left near there that was burning.
I got home and looked under the hood and didn't really see anything out of the ordinary.
The next morning going to work, the battery light came on. great.
I got to work and wiggled all connections to make sure it wasn't something left loose from the mechanic.
The culprit was a fried connection at teh alternator. The tech didn't tighten the bolt and it arced and fried the ceramic under the bolt and it was crushed as i was tightening it as i thought he just forgot to tighten it. There wasn't much force required to do it either.
I went the polite way for the first day or two and was set up in a loaner car while they looked at it.
They told me that the alternator that i replaced 6 months ago wasn't tightened and that was the reason. So they were basically telling that replacing the alternator 6 months ago was my issue where clearly they had to move/remove the alternator to get to the tb/wp.
It took me a few days but eventually i got it replaced.
I even went as far as faxing a copy of the receipt from advance auto so they could exchange it, but advance auto balked as i didn' take it in to get it replaced.
After fighting with them they replaced the alternator and battery for free. I didn't need the battery but they did it anyway.
Your mechanics past history tells me they are in a hurry/not experienced/ don't care etc.
I would find their diagnosis unacceptable and would go half at the very most of the normal replacement cost (parts) since it seems like they messed it up.
08-04-2011, 06:17 PM
#42
Drifting
08-04-2011, 06:20 PM
#43
Sorry to hear you got screwed around by somebody overfilling your oil. Same for the dealer being given the symptoms and not knowing or the service department being too connected to the sales department with their greed.
At least next time around you know trouble shooting can get real answers instead of mech shops estimates to finance their houses.
At least next time around you know trouble shooting can get real answers instead of mech shops estimates to finance their houses.
