Peter Morgan on the M96
Racer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 484
Likes: 3
From: NorCal
Someone drew an analogy between IMS failure and Russian roulette... I think it fits. You either walk away unscathed or your blow your head clean off. No "in between". The truth is that if your IMSB lets go you have just about zeroed out the value of your MY99-MY01 996.
I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.
I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 38
From: Cary NC
15%? Where are you getting that from? How many have you seen failed?
I've read about them too, but I have yet to see one IMS failure out of dozens that I've been around personally and professionally. I've actually been on the look out for a broken 996 to buy for some time now. I've come across 2 cracked cylinders and one possible cracked head over the last year (that's across the U.S. publicly for sale, and several shops in and around NC). Considering 100,000+ cars made, that seems staggeringly low.
Anyway, I'd probably buy a car that has had an IMS bearing failure at the prices people on Rennlist suggest they go for. I'd be happy to toss in $500 as a finders fee if you find me a car that's not advertised on autotrader, cars.com, craigslist, eBay and the forums (since I check those myself) that I end up buying. That's a sincere offer, dead serious.
I've read about them too, but I have yet to see one IMS failure out of dozens that I've been around personally and professionally. I've actually been on the look out for a broken 996 to buy for some time now. I've come across 2 cracked cylinders and one possible cracked head over the last year (that's across the U.S. publicly for sale, and several shops in and around NC). Considering 100,000+ cars made, that seems staggeringly low.
Anyway, I'd probably buy a car that has had an IMS bearing failure at the prices people on Rennlist suggest they go for. I'd be happy to toss in $500 as a finders fee if you find me a car that's not advertised on autotrader, cars.com, craigslist, eBay and the forums (since I check those myself) that I end up buying. That's a sincere offer, dead serious.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 38
From: Cary NC
I should add that I've owned several trouble free (to 110k + miles) 996s. My current engine is unopened at 159,859 miles, factory original. I've also replaced "perfect" IMS bearings for other people.
I'm available to perform that service for anybody local to Raleigh NC by the way.
I'm available to perform that service for anybody local to Raleigh NC by the way.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 157
From: A twisty backroad in PA
Someone drew an analogy between IMS failure and Russian roulette... I think it fits. You either walk away unscathed or your blow your head clean off. No "in between". The truth is that if your IMSB lets go you have just about zeroed out the value of your MY99-MY01 996.
I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.
I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.
Don't post your BS here unless you can prove it.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 157
From: A twisty backroad in PA
15%? Where are you getting that from? How many have you seen failed?
I've read about them too, but I have yet to see one IMS failure out of dozens that I've been around personally and professionally. I've actually been on the look out for a broken 996 to buy for some time now. I've come across 2 cracked cylinders and one possible cracked head over the last year (that's across the U.S. publicly for sale, and several shops in and around NC). Considering 100,000+ cars made, that seems staggeringly low.
Anyway, I'd probably buy a car that has had an IMS bearing failure at the prices people on Rennlist suggest they go for. I'd be happy to toss in $500 as a finders fee if you find me a car that's not advertised on autotrader, cars.com, craigslist, eBay and the forums (since I check those myself) that I end up buying. That's a sincere offer, dead serious.
I've read about them too, but I have yet to see one IMS failure out of dozens that I've been around personally and professionally. I've actually been on the look out for a broken 996 to buy for some time now. I've come across 2 cracked cylinders and one possible cracked head over the last year (that's across the U.S. publicly for sale, and several shops in and around NC). Considering 100,000+ cars made, that seems staggeringly low.
Anyway, I'd probably buy a car that has had an IMS bearing failure at the prices people on Rennlist suggest they go for. I'd be happy to toss in $500 as a finders fee if you find me a car that's not advertised on autotrader, cars.com, craigslist, eBay and the forums (since I check those myself) that I end up buying. That's a sincere offer, dead serious.
+10000000000000000
I too have searched over the last year for a 996 roller to purchase and I have not been able to locate a single car for sale.
In fact, not long ago someone posted here on RL that they experienced an engine failure in their 996. Another member of RL and I both inquired about purchasing the roller but, not surprisingly, we did not receive a response. My guess was that the post was an informercial which was not interested in selling the car but rather another product.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 471
Likes: 1
From: Northeastern Pa
Hey dream carrera, still have the bearing you wanted to see, I sent you my address and phone number but never heard from you. If it helps I'm in Allentown every tuesday near the airport,if you'd like I can show it to you.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 157
From: A twisty backroad in PA
You did not hear from me because I already explained to you that my parents live in Allentown, not me, and I only visit them several times per year. You live about 1 1/2 hours north of Allentown, so you are at least 2 1/2 hours from me. Do you ever get to the Reading area? Do you ever do any PCA events or car shows, DE, AX events?
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 471
Likes: 1
From: Northeastern Pa
Posted pics. did send you my phone number and address, at your request,but never heard from you. Why so hostile? You asked to see the bearing and the car and I offered for you to see it while it was still apart,but got no response.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 157
From: A twisty backroad in PA
No hostility here.
Again, if it was convenient i'd be happy to look at your car/bearing but obviously I am not going to drive for hours to see them. Why would I do that???
I recall asking you if you were going to attend the CPA PCA swap meet in Hershey and I never recieved a reply from you.
Once again, do you attend any of the events that I listed above? I attend many events and meeting at one of those would make more sense. Again, do you ever get to the Reading area?
Again, if it was convenient i'd be happy to look at your car/bearing but obviously I am not going to drive for hours to see them. Why would I do that???
I recall asking you if you were going to attend the CPA PCA swap meet in Hershey and I never recieved a reply from you.
Once again, do you attend any of the events that I listed above? I attend many events and meeting at one of those would make more sense. Again, do you ever get to the Reading area?
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 471
Likes: 1
From: Northeastern Pa
I couldn't care less about seeing the perfectly fine bearing that you supposedly removed from your car. At least not enough to drive for hours to see it. Have you ever posted pics of it?
You did not hear from me because I already explained to you that my parents live in Allentown, not me, and I only visit them several times per year. You live about 1 1/2 hours north of Allentown, so you are at least 2 1/2 hours from me. Do you ever get to the Reading area? Do you ever do any PCA events or car shows, DE, AX events?
You did not hear from me because I already explained to you that my parents live in Allentown, not me, and I only visit them several times per year. You live about 1 1/2 hours north of Allentown, so you are at least 2 1/2 hours from me. Do you ever get to the Reading area? Do you ever do any PCA events or car shows, DE, AX events?
Racer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 484
Likes: 3
From: NorCal
Wow, you are truly a piece of work. Why are you here? Are you still looking for a 996 or are you simply another of the many infomercial hosts we have seen here over the last few years? 15% failure rate-HAHA Give me a break, more like 0.15%.
Don't post your BS here unless you can prove it.
Don't post your BS here unless you can prove it.
Why am I here? To engage in technical discussions of 996-related topics.
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
I find it pretty hard to actually take these numbers all that serious. Mainly because the statistical bias in the source is beyond what we're able to correct for with what we have availbale as control points.
Fact:
The people replacing IMS bearings for a living mostly see cars with broken IMS.
I'm not saying IMS is not real, I'm just saying most of us worry about it far more then it deserves. It's a high powered sports car, I'm fairly sure theft and / or accidents is far more likely and happens a lot more then IMS problems.
All the forum "noise" about this once stopped me from going down the Boxtser route and I highly regret that decision. This time around, I'm going for a 996 and I'm not worried.
Either way with a used car it's a gamble. Things happen.
The article this thread is based on is good though, recomended reading.
Fact:
The people replacing IMS bearings for a living mostly see cars with broken IMS.
I'm not saying IMS is not real, I'm just saying most of us worry about it far more then it deserves. It's a high powered sports car, I'm fairly sure theft and / or accidents is far more likely and happens a lot more then IMS problems.
All the forum "noise" about this once stopped me from going down the Boxtser route and I highly regret that decision. This time around, I'm going for a 996 and I'm not worried.
Either way with a used car it's a gamble. Things happen.
The article this thread is based on is good though, recomended reading.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 471
Likes: 1
From: Northeastern Pa
I'm not saying IMS is not real, I'm just saying most of us worry about it far more then it deserves. It's a high powered sports car, I'm fairly sure theft and / or accidents is far more likely and happens a lot more then IMS problems.
All the forum "noise" about this once stopped me from going down the Boxtser route and I highly regret that decision. This time around, I'm going for a 996 and I'm not worried.
All the forum "noise" about this once stopped me from going down the Boxtser route and I highly regret that decision. This time around, I'm going for a 996 and I'm not worried.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 117
From: Dallas
Someone drew an analogy between IMS failure and Russian roulette... I think it fits. You either walk away unscathed or your blow your head clean off. No "in between". The truth is that if your IMSB lets go you have just about zeroed out the value of your MY99-MY01 996.
I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.
I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.
I use one of the best P-Car mechanics in the country, he has never seen an IMS failure, but has replaced many perfectly good IMS bearing on request.
I mentioned to you before, you should look for some other car and move on from the 996's. You will never be happy with a 996, you seem to have already set up a lose/lose situation for yourself.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
From: Calgary, Canada
My Porsche mechanic, the best in Calgary, has only ever seen 2 failures that ruined engines.
I went and bought the magazine just for this article. The summary at the beginning of this thread is spot on.
If I had to summarize the article myself, I'd do it as follows: Look after your P-car, check fluid levels (and only use the right stuff), older P-cars with lower mileages that were occasionally used in "city" driving are probably more at risk, and most of the worst problems only affected the first 3.4 L engines. RMS is not a "big" deal, more of an annoyance (author calls it a red herring), and IMS failures are probably more rare than stated on the forums - and this is likely a big factor in why the 996 series does not command high prices and is not considered a classic by Porsche standards. In summary, cars break down (P-cars too), but it shouldn't stop you from driving them.
I went and bought the magazine just for this article. The summary at the beginning of this thread is spot on.
If I had to summarize the article myself, I'd do it as follows: Look after your P-car, check fluid levels (and only use the right stuff), older P-cars with lower mileages that were occasionally used in "city" driving are probably more at risk, and most of the worst problems only affected the first 3.4 L engines. RMS is not a "big" deal, more of an annoyance (author calls it a red herring), and IMS failures are probably more rare than stated on the forums - and this is likely a big factor in why the 996 series does not command high prices and is not considered a classic by Porsche standards. In summary, cars break down (P-cars too), but it shouldn't stop you from driving them.