I had a rollbar built and installed in my car
06-24-2011, 07:19 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
I had a rollbar built and installed in my car
I included many pictures of a gt3 cup car in what I wanted the interior to look like, and well it came back looking like a high school shop class did the work.
In addition I have 5 new dents on my roof.
I contacted the shop via email to disclose my concerns and dissatisfaction.
And they're coming back telling me the dents were already there, and the work they did is what I had asked. I'm a little upset, and I got a quote to fix the dents and was almost $1100.
Here are the emails:
After a closer look at the car, I'm not very happy. I met up with the friend who originally came with me when I dropped off the car, as he wanted to check out the car and the work that was done. His first impression was "wow, they pretty much did nothing you asked for."
And I began to agree with him in some regards. The door pull release straps are nothing like the pictures I provided. When I asked Dan about this he said it wasn't possible (this is when I picked up the car), but before I agreed to leave the car with NAME OF SHOP they insured me it was within their scope of support. Something that does seem trivial, annoys me a bit since I was charged a significant amount to cut the aluminum. I consulted with a machinist who told me it shouldn't have been more than 2 hours for the job that was done. The metal handles to close the doors are nothing like I what I had asked for either, I wanted cloth loops to close the doors like those provided in the pictures.
In addition the aluminum center console is nothing like the one on the porsche pictures I provided. It appears the porsches' center consoles are some sort of composite plastic and not aluminum.
I cringed at the 8 hours to remove the interior, but at the time I was under the impression these were conservative estimates. After I paid I realized the only things in the car that needed to be removed were the seats, carpet, headliner, and seat belts. It took Darren less than 10 minutes when I originally dropped off the car to take out the seat, I'm wondering where all the other time came from.
I was charged separately for the sunroof removal as well.
I haven't had a chance to wash the car, but I immediately noticed 4 dents and some significant scratches on the roof that I'm extremely unhappy about.
I'm hoping NAME OF SHOP will take the appropriate action and rectify the issues listed above.
As a final request, I ask that all communication is in writing.
-Brian
Since they hadn't written me back I wrote a more formal letter, and sent it certified mail. I'm guessing they got this letter today because I got this email from them about an hour ago.
Brian;
We’ve gone over our communications with you, we’ve reviewed the work order we wrote up with you when we took your car in, we reviewed all the work we did, and we came to the following conclusions regarding your list of complaints, listed below:
1.) Door latch release straps. You did not “provide” any photographs of what you wanted. You brought in an iPhone and briefly scrolled through a series of photos to convey a general idea of what you wanted. What we came up with is a perfectly reasonable and functional distillation of that brief flip-through of phone pictures.
2.) Door panels. You were charged appropriately and accurately for the materials and labor necessary to fabricate and install them AND YOU APPROVED THE CHARGE IN ADVANCE. We are not responsible for what some machinist may have told you about how much time he thought it should take.
3.) Metal interior door handles. This complaint is valid. You clearly specified cloth strap interior door pulls and we installed metal door pulls. The fabricator working on your car made the decision to use metal handles for better durability. That was inappropriate and we accept responsibility for it.
4.) Aluminum center dash block-off plate. Again, you did not “provide” even a single photograph, and you did not specifically request a particular material to be used. We are a metal fabrication shop. Therefore, it isn’t reasonable to assume that we would fabricate such a piece out of anything but metal in the absence of your instructions to that effect.
5.) Charges for interior removal. You were quoted eight hours of labor AT HALF THE PRICE OF OUR REGULAR SHOP RATE of $90 per hour to strip, clean and prep the interior. That equates to four hours of regular labor. You clearly specified that you wanted the interior pieces carefully removed intact. That takes a good longer than cutting out the interior pieces and discarding them, as is typically done with race cars. You were charged fairly and appropriately for the work you requested. And YOU APPROVED THAT CHARGE BEFORE WE BEGAN WORK ON THE CAR.
6.) Separate charge for sunroof work. You were charged separately for this because it was a separate operation. You were charged 3.5 hours labor to remove all the components of the sunroof articulation mechanism and affix the sunroof panel in place. This was exactly the time it took to do the work you requested, and it was considerably less than the 8 hours that were initially estimated and that YOU APPROVED IN ADVANCE.
7.) Scratches and dents on the roof. These were observed on the vehicle by two of our employees at the time you first brought the vehicle in. They were pre-existing and we will not be held responsible for them. We did no damage to your vehicle whatsoever.
In summary, you have one valid complaint in your lengthy list – the metal interior door pulls. So we will offer you a refund of one hour of shop labor time ($90), which is a bit more than the time it took to procure and install the metal handles. As we didn’t charge you for the handles themselves, there’s no materials charge to refund.
As for all the other complaints, there is simply no merit to any of them. You were given an estimate at the time you dropped the vehicle off and you agreed to it. Shortly thereafter, you were provided with a detailed, itemized quote, which you again agreed to. You came to the shop midway through the build to observe the work in progress and you raised no concerns or objections about the work or the bill. When you picked up the vehicle, you asked about the door latch release straps and metal door pulls, which I explained apparently to your satisfaction. After paying your bill without objection and taking delivery of your car, you thanked us for a job well done and left with a handshake and a smile. From the time you dropped the car off up to and including the time you picked it up about three weeks later, you had ample time to review the costs and/or register complaints about the work we were doing. You did neither. To do so after the fact seems disingenuous.
Please let me know if you choose to accept our offer of the $90 refund and, if so, where you would like us to mail the check.
$90 refund for $1100 worth of damage...
Wondering what my chances are in small claims court? I'm going to push hard since they are taking no responsibility, and take all appropriate avenues in making a complaint with BAR and BBB.
In addition I have 5 new dents on my roof.
I contacted the shop via email to disclose my concerns and dissatisfaction.
And they're coming back telling me the dents were already there, and the work they did is what I had asked. I'm a little upset, and I got a quote to fix the dents and was almost $1100.
Here are the emails:
After a closer look at the car, I'm not very happy. I met up with the friend who originally came with me when I dropped off the car, as he wanted to check out the car and the work that was done. His first impression was "wow, they pretty much did nothing you asked for."
And I began to agree with him in some regards. The door pull release straps are nothing like the pictures I provided. When I asked Dan about this he said it wasn't possible (this is when I picked up the car), but before I agreed to leave the car with NAME OF SHOP they insured me it was within their scope of support. Something that does seem trivial, annoys me a bit since I was charged a significant amount to cut the aluminum. I consulted with a machinist who told me it shouldn't have been more than 2 hours for the job that was done. The metal handles to close the doors are nothing like I what I had asked for either, I wanted cloth loops to close the doors like those provided in the pictures.
In addition the aluminum center console is nothing like the one on the porsche pictures I provided. It appears the porsches' center consoles are some sort of composite plastic and not aluminum.
I cringed at the 8 hours to remove the interior, but at the time I was under the impression these were conservative estimates. After I paid I realized the only things in the car that needed to be removed were the seats, carpet, headliner, and seat belts. It took Darren less than 10 minutes when I originally dropped off the car to take out the seat, I'm wondering where all the other time came from.
I was charged separately for the sunroof removal as well.
I haven't had a chance to wash the car, but I immediately noticed 4 dents and some significant scratches on the roof that I'm extremely unhappy about.
I'm hoping NAME OF SHOP will take the appropriate action and rectify the issues listed above.
As a final request, I ask that all communication is in writing.
-Brian
Since they hadn't written me back I wrote a more formal letter, and sent it certified mail. I'm guessing they got this letter today because I got this email from them about an hour ago.
Brian;
We’ve gone over our communications with you, we’ve reviewed the work order we wrote up with you when we took your car in, we reviewed all the work we did, and we came to the following conclusions regarding your list of complaints, listed below:
1.) Door latch release straps. You did not “provide” any photographs of what you wanted. You brought in an iPhone and briefly scrolled through a series of photos to convey a general idea of what you wanted. What we came up with is a perfectly reasonable and functional distillation of that brief flip-through of phone pictures.
2.) Door panels. You were charged appropriately and accurately for the materials and labor necessary to fabricate and install them AND YOU APPROVED THE CHARGE IN ADVANCE. We are not responsible for what some machinist may have told you about how much time he thought it should take.
3.) Metal interior door handles. This complaint is valid. You clearly specified cloth strap interior door pulls and we installed metal door pulls. The fabricator working on your car made the decision to use metal handles for better durability. That was inappropriate and we accept responsibility for it.
4.) Aluminum center dash block-off plate. Again, you did not “provide” even a single photograph, and you did not specifically request a particular material to be used. We are a metal fabrication shop. Therefore, it isn’t reasonable to assume that we would fabricate such a piece out of anything but metal in the absence of your instructions to that effect.
5.) Charges for interior removal. You were quoted eight hours of labor AT HALF THE PRICE OF OUR REGULAR SHOP RATE of $90 per hour to strip, clean and prep the interior. That equates to four hours of regular labor. You clearly specified that you wanted the interior pieces carefully removed intact. That takes a good longer than cutting out the interior pieces and discarding them, as is typically done with race cars. You were charged fairly and appropriately for the work you requested. And YOU APPROVED THAT CHARGE BEFORE WE BEGAN WORK ON THE CAR.
6.) Separate charge for sunroof work. You were charged separately for this because it was a separate operation. You were charged 3.5 hours labor to remove all the components of the sunroof articulation mechanism and affix the sunroof panel in place. This was exactly the time it took to do the work you requested, and it was considerably less than the 8 hours that were initially estimated and that YOU APPROVED IN ADVANCE.
7.) Scratches and dents on the roof. These were observed on the vehicle by two of our employees at the time you first brought the vehicle in. They were pre-existing and we will not be held responsible for them. We did no damage to your vehicle whatsoever.
In summary, you have one valid complaint in your lengthy list – the metal interior door pulls. So we will offer you a refund of one hour of shop labor time ($90), which is a bit more than the time it took to procure and install the metal handles. As we didn’t charge you for the handles themselves, there’s no materials charge to refund.
As for all the other complaints, there is simply no merit to any of them. You were given an estimate at the time you dropped the vehicle off and you agreed to it. Shortly thereafter, you were provided with a detailed, itemized quote, which you again agreed to. You came to the shop midway through the build to observe the work in progress and you raised no concerns or objections about the work or the bill. When you picked up the vehicle, you asked about the door latch release straps and metal door pulls, which I explained apparently to your satisfaction. After paying your bill without objection and taking delivery of your car, you thanked us for a job well done and left with a handshake and a smile. From the time you dropped the car off up to and including the time you picked it up about three weeks later, you had ample time to review the costs and/or register complaints about the work we were doing. You did neither. To do so after the fact seems disingenuous.
Please let me know if you choose to accept our offer of the $90 refund and, if so, where you would like us to mail the check.
$90 refund for $1100 worth of damage...
Wondering what my chances are in small claims court? I'm going to push hard since they are taking no responsibility, and take all appropriate avenues in making a complaint with BAR and BBB.
06-24-2011, 07:23 PM
#2
Instructor
Thread Starter
I added the owner on facebook and showed him pictures of EXACTLY what I wanted. He said he was a porsche specialist and it would be no problem making the interior look like a cup car. Pictures were accessible to the shop at any time.
06-24-2011, 08:29 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
God I am livid reading through this email of blatant lies. It makes me more and more upset each time I read it.
I have no problem disclosing this was the work of Evil Genius Racing located in West Sacramento CA. Consumer beware! Filing complaint with BBB as I type this.
I have no problem disclosing this was the work of Evil Genius Racing located in West Sacramento CA. Consumer beware! Filing complaint with BBB as I type this.
06-24-2011, 10:30 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
I rebuilt my car after a dashboard fire. I put numerous dents on both fenders while soldering hundreds of connections, even though I covered them with quilts and foam. Scott at Dent Dynamics (El Dorado Hills 916-939-6554) removed all of the dents for less than $100. If your headliner is removed, the roof should not be a problem. Good Luck.
06-28-2011, 04:25 AM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
here are the pictures that the shop was so proud of on facebook...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evil-G...g/117951315021
quoted "Our latest project - Back-half roll cage and assorted interior finish work on a 911. Some of Darren's best work! Check it out!"
I wish I had seen some of their "best work" before I agreed to pay $3800.
Filed complaint with BBB, going to contact BAR later this week. I can't get over the truck liner floor board. Really?!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evil-G...g/117951315021
quoted "Our latest project - Back-half roll cage and assorted interior finish work on a 911. Some of Darren's best work! Check it out!"
I wish I had seen some of their "best work" before I agreed to pay $3800.
Filed complaint with BBB, going to contact BAR later this week. I can't get over the truck liner floor board. Really?!
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06-28-2011, 12:07 PM
#9
You were given an estimate at the time you dropped the vehicle off and you agreed to it. Shortly thereafter, you were provided with a detailed, itemized quote, which you again agreed to. You came to the shop midway through the build to observe the work in progress and you raised no concerns or objections about the work or the bill.
Wondering what my chances are in small claims court? I'm going to push hard since they are taking no responsibility, and take all appropriate avenues in making a complaint with BAR and BBB.
Wondering what my chances are in small claims court? I'm going to push hard since they are taking no responsibility, and take all appropriate avenues in making a complaint with BAR and BBB.
-td
06-28-2011, 06:08 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
This shop specializes in cages for Spec Miata, Spec E30 and Lemons ($500 cars). Not exactly cars that demand high levels of exacting details when converted to race cars.
The half cage looks properly built as far as I can see from the welds. Surprised you didn't have it painted. The bare cage will rust and looks pretty bad. As for the fabrication work and choices; kinda tough... You have a Half street Half Race car. IMHO nothing good can come of that.
Door panels are ok, not much you can do there. SHould have painted them.
Door pulls are ok, seen better, seen worse.
Center panel, the trim detail looks pretty rough and the the window button placement looks like crap. Will look better painted.
The half cage looks properly built as far as I can see from the welds. Surprised you didn't have it painted. The bare cage will rust and looks pretty bad. As for the fabrication work and choices; kinda tough... You have a Half street Half Race car. IMHO nothing good can come of that.
Door panels are ok, not much you can do there. SHould have painted them.
Door pulls are ok, seen better, seen worse.
Center panel, the trim detail looks pretty rough and the the window button placement looks like crap. Will look better painted.
06-28-2011, 08:01 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
They did a lot of work for 3800.00.. I am still trying to figure out what you are looking for? Is this thing a street car or a race car? Race cars are more function than form from what I have seen.
Im sorry but I think you got your monies worth.. and i think you are really going to do nothing more than **** your self off fighting it. I dont think you have a case with them.
No disrespect.... Just two guys talking.
06-28-2011, 08:05 PM
#12
A bolt in harness/roll bar from Porsche costs how much?
Maybe painless dent removal can fix the dents, and if you paint the cage, and maybe even the rest of the interior that's bare now that you had them remove all the padding and carpet, it will look a better. I'd say if it's a street/track car to put the door panels back so you can have regular door handles so you won't get reminded every time you open the door about this.
Maybe painless dent removal can fix the dents, and if you paint the cage, and maybe even the rest of the interior that's bare now that you had them remove all the padding and carpet, it will look a better. I'd say if it's a street/track car to put the door panels back so you can have regular door handles so you won't get reminded every time you open the door about this.
06-30-2011, 02:01 PM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
i asked them to paint the whole interior white, they insured me they could do it time and time again, then the day before I picked it up they told me they can't do it... that really made me mad.