Cheap Horsepower Add-On Purchase??
11-21-2010, 04:45 PM
#31
Drifting
huh - well that sure put me in my place.
I concede - this argument convinced me:
"I may be wrong but I think these people can handle flooring the throttle and steering the car properly for short bursts of acceleration on the road" - gosh, having added skills from professional training would NOT help in this case
and RE: this statement:
"Should all high performance car owners be required to pass a high performance drivers ed. course on track before being able to drive their cars on public roads?
No, all drivers of ALL CARS should have to pass more rigorous training before being handed a license, but that is my opinion.. we have drivers putt around on residential streets for 20 minutes and over 1/2 that time is spent parking, then hand them a license to drive a car at 70 mph??? Nothing in the skills test says the driver can handle a car at speed and there are LOTS of drivers who cannot handle the speed of 60-70 mph, hence the way they drive on the freeways. That’s another battle though.
"You make it sound as though most drivers of fast cars on the road are ticking time bombs ready to smash into anything in sight" - yep, that's pretty much what I said
Look the OP asked what "cheap add-on" horsepower was available, and I suggested putting the money into suspension and instruction...if you want an additional HP 996, go for it, but in his own words "It seems that I can get an increase of 32 - 36 HP for less than $2,000" I just don’t see most people getting much out of 34 more HP - its an opinion that the money would be better spent on training - I am back with more rain I guess
I like the conversation, and in no way feel you are attacking me, its good that we talk and voice our opinions esp when they are not all the same
I concede - this argument convinced me:
"I may be wrong but I think these people can handle flooring the throttle and steering the car properly for short bursts of acceleration on the road" - gosh, having added skills from professional training would NOT help in this case
and RE: this statement:
"Should all high performance car owners be required to pass a high performance drivers ed. course on track before being able to drive their cars on public roads?
No, all drivers of ALL CARS should have to pass more rigorous training before being handed a license, but that is my opinion.. we have drivers putt around on residential streets for 20 minutes and over 1/2 that time is spent parking, then hand them a license to drive a car at 70 mph??? Nothing in the skills test says the driver can handle a car at speed and there are LOTS of drivers who cannot handle the speed of 60-70 mph, hence the way they drive on the freeways. That’s another battle though.
"You make it sound as though most drivers of fast cars on the road are ticking time bombs ready to smash into anything in sight" - yep, that's pretty much what I said
Look the OP asked what "cheap add-on" horsepower was available, and I suggested putting the money into suspension and instruction...if you want an additional HP 996, go for it, but in his own words "It seems that I can get an increase of 32 - 36 HP for less than $2,000" I just don’t see most people getting much out of 34 more HP - its an opinion that the money would be better spent on training - I am back with more rain I guess
I like the conversation, and in no way feel you are attacking me, its good that we talk and voice our opinions esp when they are not all the same
That’s it for me on this subject. Have fun at the track.
11-21-2010, 04:48 PM
#32
Parts Specialist
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was being silly, not snide,....sorry if I came accross as such, I am often time just a big bag of wind - cheers and no hard feeling.
anough from me on the subjest too
anough from me on the subjest too
11-22-2010, 12:23 AM
#33
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Well, I'm glad that you guys could shake hands and still get together for a beer after that back and forth.
Yes, my question was how much additional horsepower can I buy cheap? I have not been at a DE or on a track trying to hone my skills. I took some parade laps on a couple of occasions but never really tossed my car around the track. But, I have done a few AutoX when I had Kermit. That was an eye opening experience. The issue wasn't how fast I could go but how I could go around corners fast. I learned that the great fun of these cars is that they whip you to death around corners, that the solution to many ills you would find yourself in is counter-intuitive - you hit the accelerator more. I learned that the worst thing you can do around a corner is hit the brake!!!
I was coming around the last corner on one of my first AX's and hit the brake too long and too hard. The car did a quick 180, and I rolled BACKWARDS through the timing lights. Well, that was an education!!
I am enjoying my 996, don't get me wrong. I don't think that I could have found another model that I would enjoy as much for the dollars spent. But as part of my continuing research into what to do with the car, I have started making a list of cosmetic (cockpit) alterations, and some mechanical changes as well. It's not going to get all done at once, but I wanted to get the flavor of the brain trust on HP gains.
I am certainly not going to take the car down to minimum weight. That would mean taking out the A/C, the two electric seats, the Targa top, and who knows how much other stuff. That might turn it into a nice track car, but it won't be as much fun to drive around the city.
But listening to the responses has been very rewarding. I'll keep you guys posted on what I do, when I get around to it.
larry
Yes, my question was how much additional horsepower can I buy cheap? I have not been at a DE or on a track trying to hone my skills. I took some parade laps on a couple of occasions but never really tossed my car around the track. But, I have done a few AutoX when I had Kermit. That was an eye opening experience. The issue wasn't how fast I could go but how I could go around corners fast. I learned that the great fun of these cars is that they whip you to death around corners, that the solution to many ills you would find yourself in is counter-intuitive - you hit the accelerator more. I learned that the worst thing you can do around a corner is hit the brake!!!
I was coming around the last corner on one of my first AX's and hit the brake too long and too hard. The car did a quick 180, and I rolled BACKWARDS through the timing lights. Well, that was an education!!
I am enjoying my 996, don't get me wrong. I don't think that I could have found another model that I would enjoy as much for the dollars spent. But as part of my continuing research into what to do with the car, I have started making a list of cosmetic (cockpit) alterations, and some mechanical changes as well. It's not going to get all done at once, but I wanted to get the flavor of the brain trust on HP gains.
I am certainly not going to take the car down to minimum weight. That would mean taking out the A/C, the two electric seats, the Targa top, and who knows how much other stuff. That might turn it into a nice track car, but it won't be as much fun to drive around the city.
But listening to the responses has been very rewarding. I'll keep you guys posted on what I do, when I get around to it.
larry
11-22-2010, 01:03 AM
#34
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I'm also a fan of instruction and not HP bolt-on mods. That said....about the IPD intake plenum, you need to be careful of marketing spin. This crap is everywhere and IPD takes it to another level.
+24HP (their claim) is not a total HP increase. In fact, looking at their dyno chart you will see only a 9HP peak gain. This 24HP claim comes from a specific rpm range gain where their product claims to have more power over stock.
Look again at their chart to see what I mean.
http://ipdplenums.com/images/stories...o_01_96174.png
I'm not going to judge whether this product is worth it or not because I haven't tried it. I do like how the claimed gain is in the usable rpm range, but I can't speak to the value of it.
Cheers,
+24HP (their claim) is not a total HP increase. In fact, looking at their dyno chart you will see only a 9HP peak gain. This 24HP claim comes from a specific rpm range gain where their product claims to have more power over stock.
Look again at their chart to see what I mean.
http://ipdplenums.com/images/stories...o_01_96174.png
I'm not going to judge whether this product is worth it or not because I haven't tried it. I do like how the claimed gain is in the usable rpm range, but I can't speak to the value of it.
Cheers,
11-22-2010, 09:58 AM
#35
Internet message boards are no more objective or reliable than marketing is. Just differently motivated.
11-22-2010, 04:03 PM
#37
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My $.02..... GIAC flash ($600), exhaust system ($1,000?), FVD's larger throttle body ($411), and BMC's air filter element in the OEM box ($110). Still in the $2k range and you've enhanced the fuel flow in-n-out, and flashed the ECU to take advantage of it all....
11-27-2010, 09:57 AM
#39
Instructor
Larry47us
being on the same road myself, here are some insights. These pertain to the c4s, your performance may vary.
1. tracking the car is mind expanding. i finally began to see what the car is really like!!. it changes character markedly at >5k rpm. the brakes stop on a dime and give a nickel change.
2. the most effective way to feel more secure with the car is to alter the suspension. Stock suspension is for grannies. then tires. a better set of tires makes a world of difference.
3. change the cockpit for comfort. for me, with a bad right hip (finally replaced last year), installing a GT3 delete kit (Suncoast Porsche) makes a world of difference during my daily drive.
4. while you are installing the GT3 delete kit, put in a short shifter kit or 997 assembly. The stock gear shift is not all that precise. Kinda felt like my '72 911S of blessed memory.
5. enjoy it every day. it was built to drive.
keep us informed.
surfer161
p.s. my avatar is at watkins glen international raceway in Watkins Glen NY
being on the same road myself, here are some insights. These pertain to the c4s, your performance may vary.
1. tracking the car is mind expanding. i finally began to see what the car is really like!!. it changes character markedly at >5k rpm. the brakes stop on a dime and give a nickel change.
2. the most effective way to feel more secure with the car is to alter the suspension. Stock suspension is for grannies. then tires. a better set of tires makes a world of difference.
3. change the cockpit for comfort. for me, with a bad right hip (finally replaced last year), installing a GT3 delete kit (Suncoast Porsche) makes a world of difference during my daily drive.
4. while you are installing the GT3 delete kit, put in a short shifter kit or 997 assembly. The stock gear shift is not all that precise. Kinda felt like my '72 911S of blessed memory.
5. enjoy it every day. it was built to drive.
keep us informed.
surfer161
p.s. my avatar is at watkins glen international raceway in Watkins Glen NY
11-27-2010, 03:11 PM
#41
It's N2O, not NO2. Nitrogen dioxide is one of your tailpipe emissions. 
For street, I personally like going for power that you don't have to keep replenishing, and one that isn't just instantaneous but is always there when you put the pedal down. Leave nitrous oxide for the lowered civics and straight line crowd.
For street, I personally like going for power that you don't have to keep replenishing, and one that isn't just instantaneous but is always there when you put the pedal down. Leave nitrous oxide for the lowered civics and straight line crowd.
11-27-2010, 03:31 PM
#42
IMHO, the stock suspension is an appropriate tool for the job if your car is a DD on real world roads. I think it's great when people upgrade it and love the look of a lowered car. But I don't think it's fair to suggest that the stock setup was designed by fools to satisfy grannies. Other than on the track, I don't think most of us are in any danger of outdriving it and, as someone who left it stock even when I replaced the worn shocks, I think it's really quite competent. And I'm not what you'd call a granny. 
11-27-2010, 08:00 PM
#43
IMHO, the stock suspension is an appropriate tool for the job if your car is a DD on real world roads. I think it's great when people upgrade it and love the look of a lowered car. But I don't think it's fair to suggest that the stock setup was designed by fools to satisfy grannies. Other than on the track, I don't think most of us are in any danger of outdriving it and, as someone who left it stock even when I replaced the worn shocks, I think it's really quite competent. And I'm not what you'd call a granny.
11-27-2010, 10:19 PM
#45
I like that one.
Getting a tune up if it hasn't had one is a good improvement. I think the advertised plug life is way over what I prefer. Plugs, flash the ECU, make sure the air filter is changed, clean the radiators, even the suspension has lots of options.
Getting a tune up if it hasn't had one is a good improvement. I think the advertised plug life is way over what I prefer. Plugs, flash the ECU, make sure the air filter is changed, clean the radiators, even the suspension has lots of options.