Tempted by Conti Extreme Contact DWS all-seasons!
11-16-2010, 02:03 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
When I do DE and AutoX I will run the Toyo T1R on a spare set of rims.
They are noisier because the tread design is frankly quite aggressive in terms of siping and clawing surfaces for snow/ice.
11-16-2010, 02:17 PM
#17
a MODERN all season tire will stop quicker than a pure snow tire. It certainly won't have the grip of a pure snow tire when there's an inch or more of snow on the ground, and certainly not in the ice, but it definitely has the cold weather performance (pliability) during the freezing temps.
Winter tires are not only more pliable, but their compound is much softer, their tread design creates more bite and (generally speaking) the size variations create better stability.
My Pirelli Wintersports stops my C4S much quicker in the snow than any all season tire possible could...because it was designed to...same goes for dry but very cold.
Same way my summer tires would stop quicker, turn better and launch faster than any all season possibly could in the dry heat of summer.
All season tires are compromises. Like a jack of all trades. Good at everything, expert at nothing.
11-16-2010, 02:18 PM
#18
Team Owner
I have driven extensively in the snow on summer tires(c4s) and never once has the car felt loose or unsafe. I think you'll be fine with all seasons, as long as you don't push the car in unsafe conditions. Try it out and see how it is. If it doesn't work out, you can always go to snow tires next season.
I'm not sure how different people with the same model car can have such drastically different opinions of driving them on summer tires in the snow, but I do know that it's against the laws of science for a tire that works well in the heat to also work well in the cold any more than someone saying that wearing a winter jacket keeps them comfortable all year round.
11-16-2010, 02:19 PM
#19
Team Owner
No, they don't. Where do you get this info from?
Winter tires are not only more pliable, but their compound is much softer, their tread design creates more bite and (generally speaking) the size variations create better stability.
My Pirelli Wintersports stops my C4S much quicker in the snow than any all season tire possible could...because it was designed to...same goes for dry but very cold.
Same way my summer tires would stop quicker, turn better and launch faster than any all season possibly could in the dry heat of summer.
All season tires are compromises. Like a jack of all trades. Good at everything, expert at nothing.
Winter tires are not only more pliable, but their compound is much softer, their tread design creates more bite and (generally speaking) the size variations create better stability.
My Pirelli Wintersports stops my C4S much quicker in the snow than any all season tire possible could...because it was designed to...same goes for dry but very cold.
Same way my summer tires would stop quicker, turn better and launch faster than any all season possibly could in the dry heat of summer.
All season tires are compromises. Like a jack of all trades. Good at everything, expert at nothing.
11-16-2010, 02:29 PM
#21
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I got caught out in light snow once with Pirelli P-Zeros still on the car. It was the scariest 10 mph drive home I've ever had in my life. Summer rubber is absolutely dangerous below 40 degrees. I've had my winter wheels and tires on the C4S since October.
11-16-2010, 03:06 PM
#23
Racer
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only conclusion I can come to is that your definition of loose and unsafe is radically different than mine or that your tires aren't actually summer rubber. My C4 (with narrower rear tires than your C4S--considered to be an advantage in snow) is downright dangerous in slippery conditions. When I install the winter tires, I have to physically try to get the car out of sorts.
I'm not sure how different people with the same model car can have such drastically different opinions of driving them on summer tires in the snow, but I do know that it's against the laws of science for a tire that works well in the heat to also work well in the cold any more than someone saying that wearing a winter jacket keeps them comfortable all year round.
I'm not sure how different people with the same model car can have such drastically different opinions of driving them on summer tires in the snow, but I do know that it's against the laws of science for a tire that works well in the heat to also work well in the cold any more than someone saying that wearing a winter jacket keeps them comfortable all year round.
In the snow the car takes more time to settle in a corner, but once it's settled the dynamics seemed to be pretty similar to regular driving.
As for rain driving, well I've autocrossed this car in the rain, and it felt quite stable on the summer times.
Edit: It just occured to me that there are different types of snow. The snow driving I'm talking about was on Yosemite National Park roads with 5 feet of snow on them. It was quite heavily compacted. I have no idea how the car will drive in loose snow.
11-16-2010, 03:07 PM
#24
Super Moderator
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 16,142
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes
on
16 Posts
Well, I don't know why others have had such a hard time on summer tires in the snow. I used to regularly take the car on snow camping trips on those tires, and the car pretty much drove the way it drove on regular ground. Of course, I was not taking turns fast, I slowed down extra for turns that I thought might upset the car. By dialing in smooth steering and throttle input, keep the rpms low, I was able to get by just fine at speeds up to 40 mph(straight line) on those tires. I believe they were Contisportcontact 2's at the time.
In the snow the car takes more time to settle in a corner, but once it's settled the dynamics seemed to be pretty similar to regular driving.
In the snow the car takes more time to settle in a corner, but once it's settled the dynamics seemed to be pretty similar to regular driving.
Sorry, no
Summer tires turn to rocks in cold weather, forget snow.
11-16-2010, 03:17 PM
#25
Racer
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just did an autocross in the rain on Saturday where the temps were in the 30's-40's. They certainly did not get hard... I actually placed 8th raw that day.
11-16-2010, 03:18 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mooresville, IN (Life Long Cheesehead)
Posts: 5,815
Likes: 0
Received 54 Likes
on
35 Posts
Its simple fellas....
Summer Tire = The tires to use in the Summer and drive 'flat out'
Winter Tires = The tires to use in the Winter and drive 'flat out'
All Seasons = Used by drivers that swing both ways...
Summer Tire = The tires to use in the Summer and drive 'flat out'
Winter Tires = The tires to use in the Winter and drive 'flat out'
All Seasons = Used by drivers that swing both ways...
11-16-2010, 04:18 PM
#29
Instructor
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats it. I am sold.
Getting rid of my stupid winter Pirellis and their rims ASAP. I will drive on my excellent summer Sumitomos all year round knowing full well how good they are in the snow, cold rain etc.
Getting rid of my stupid winter Pirellis and their rims ASAP. I will drive on my excellent summer Sumitomos all year round knowing full well how good they are in the snow, cold rain etc.
Last edited by Janusz; 11-16-2010 at 04:41 PM.