Jocapo

Hi Guys,

Great Forum!

I am in the process of aquiring a 2000 C4 996 and had a PPI just done here in Canada at an PFAFF and was a little disappointed at the the results in that I expeceted a little more detail in there report...

That Said,

What came back was that there is a Belt/Pulley noise that will need inspecting,

Is the belt pully a routine item that could is easily fixed - or cause for concern as it may/could be something more serious and should be red flagged?

(See attached results)

I am wondering if any of you would think that at this point (with everything else checking out ok) that i would be ok to pull the trigger.

Any input would be appreciated!

Macster

"belt/pulley noise" can be due to one of several things based on my experience: water pump (with or without any signs of leaking); noisy idler roller bearing.

And of course any accessory drive that is driven by the belt can also be the source of the noise. These include power steering pump, A/C compressor, and alternator.

If the problem is an idler roller bearing that's one thing. Est. roughly $300 to get fixed at dealer. (Depends upon which one. When my 03 Turbo developed a noisy idler roller bearing tech told me there are 3 and and the cheapest one to replace was the one making the noise. He quoted me a price that was around $300 but told me if it had been another one the price to replace could have been nearly double that number. Thankfully the car was still under CPO warranty and I didn't have to pay to have noisy bearing replaced.)

If the noise is a bad water pump or some other accessory drive well you're looking at some bigger money to put right.

You need to get a definite diagnosis of the source of the noise and an estimated cost to make right and use this to adjust your offer unless the price of the car already is enough below market you can absorb this cost and still do ok.

One test to possibly determine if the noise is a idler roller bearing or an accessory drive is to with the engine off of course feel the belt. Check for a sharp edge or edges. My experience is with the water pump going bad there was enough play to allow the belt to mistrack on the water pump pulley to the point the inside edge of the belt rubbed along the pulley's side and made this edge of the belt sharp. Distinctly so from the other side which was just as the belt came of the box.

If the belt has one or two sharp edges an accessory drive or drivers is suspect.

If no sharp edge then the odds are favoring an idler roller bearing.

Assuming the noise comes from the belt, to eliminate this you can remove the belt -- note the direction of travel beforehand -- then start the cold engine.

If the noise was present from a cold start before you removed the belt and is not present from a cold start after you removed the belt the noise is coming from the accessory drive system.

If the noise is still present at cold start with the belt removed, the "belt/pulley noise" is coming from elswhere, from inside the engine likely. In this case I think you would want to walk away from the car.

Sincerely,

Macster.

BruceP

Toronto here, too.

I had my PPI done by an excellent indie, and the checklist was several pages long. If you love this car, and I were you, I might think about doing another PPI that's more thorough and objective.

FWIW, if the worst thing they found was the noise you describe, that's not bad for a decade old car almost no matter what it is.

PM me if you want an indie reco. Pfaff is a good dealer, but they're still a dealer.

Jocapo

Just got off the phone with the service advisor,

Since the car is there, i've asked them to go ahead and diagnose the noise. Already $300 in for the inspection and now an additional 1-2 hours to diagnose the noise, and i havent even purchased the car yet...guess its my initiation to Porsche ownership

Depending on what they come back as the cause and price to fix will dictate my next steps with the C4

BTW - car has 105,000 kilometers on it (About 60k in miles) and a tip for 24k

Need to quickly find myself a good indie here in Toronto

Cheers

THanks for your input

chsu74

Sounds like a few thousand too high even for Canada. It should be in the low $20K. A member is selling a perfectly sorted C2 aero for $18K with 50K miles on it out in California.

Jocapo

I've scoured for about 3 months looking for something and felt that the price wasnt that bad considering the milage and overall condition for this 996 - also by the time i paid the freight/duties/taxes etc...on the one your mentioning it would be well over 24k landed,

Fingers crossed on the belt/pulley noise

Jocapo

Just the call from the Service tech....the noise was the belt itself- 200.00 (CAD) to fix

Looks like im buying myself a 996!

THanks

JC

Receiver

They (nor any dealer) would not be my first chjoice to do a PPI. All the PPI's I have done have included a detailed report on the car. Given the car's age, I'm guessing that they are not the seller. If they are, you should get an independent PPI.

soverystout

A big +1 on that.

Barn996

Hey Jocabo, look at the post below...lots of PPI info on his.

larry47us

Jocapo:

When you do a PPI, you somehow have the feeling that you're paying a lot of money, and getting nothing in return. I have had PPI's done on 4 different Porsches, and bought two of them. The issue is that unless you are a mechanic, and can do the inspection yourself, this is really cheap insurance. And, not every shop will do a thorough job, even if they give you a listing of all the things that they are going to do. You know, when a dealer says that each of their used cars goes through a 140 point inspection before they sell it to their customers? Well, many of those 140 points are really minor stuff. Think of the number of light bulbs in a car. Well, they check every one of them.

It is nice to go to an independent shop rather than a dealer, because I have found that the indies don't really have an axe to grind on any car they inspect. They don't sell cars - usually. So there is no competition between their cars (for sale) and the one that you brought in.

Since I have had PPI's done on cars that were a long way from where I lived, I wanted them to look at EVERYTHING. That worn heel mark in the rug by the gas pedal. The small paint chips or scratches, the heater and A/C - do they both work?, how about the windshield wipers? If you are near the car, you can check out many of these things yourself. Then you can go to the shop and say - Do a Compression test and leakdown, put the car on the lift, and check the underbelly. Look for any ANY oil leaks, condition of belts, hoses, etc. check the brakes and rotors, how much pad is left?

You want to know how much money you're going to have to put into the car immediately or soon after buying it. Then subtract those things from the selling price. (everyone says this, but it is easier said than done.) Plan on an oil change at the outset - unless the seller can document that they just did it. The more info you get, the less you will have to worry about after you get the car. 996's built in 1999 or 2000 are early in production, and you will want to have done your reading on the IMS RMS issues. Not that you need to be scared silly about it - but just be aware.

Then get into the habit off regular maintenance. These cars love to be driven hard, which is why they are so much fun. But you need to make sure that you care for them. If you do, then you'll likely have good luck with it. But the PPI should be a multiple page checklist. The one that was done on the 2004 996 Targa I'm buying was 4 pages long. And even at that, it didn't include some of the things that I wanted to know. Owners manual? Service booklet? Spare tire (I saw it in the pictures) compressor (the car didn't need it) toolkit? Did the Targa top operate smoothly?

I guess what I'm saying is to be an educated consumer. Read through these posts for others that have had PPI's done, and learn from them. Then put together your list for the inspector, and ask ask ask questions. Good luck - Let us know how it turns out.

larry

Jocapo

Thanks Larry,

Great advice all round,

Good or bad - I did buy the car based on a conversation with the senior service tech at Pffaf after assuring me that all is well.

I did my best (after a week long crash course on 996's) to bring to the table the main issues that could affect these cars - still a newbie here and i'm sure there is still 90% that i dont know - but just had to pull the trigger on this one as my love of Porsche runs long deep since (since i can remember)

According to Pffaf its a one owner with all service records - what it is missing is the 96k servicing (fuel filter, belts etc..) which i will not be done at Pfaff - so i am looking for a reputable inde to give it the once over (once again) and do the servicing,

Thanks for all the great advice,

Joseph.