Notices
996 Forum 1999-2005
Sponsored by:

perspectives from my dealer master mechanic

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-02-2010 | 04:36 PM
  #31  
BruceP's Avatar
BruceP
Drifting
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,508
Likes: 24
Default

Originally Posted by Quadcammer
Sour grapes? Why? I don't own a 996, never have, and most likely never will.
I'm sorry, my mistake. You're a troll, then.
Old 09-02-2010 | 04:36 PM
  #32  
roadsession's Avatar
roadsession
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,774
Likes: 28
From: MA -
Default

Guys, we need to hang up the phone on quadcammer.
Most of her recent posts are really to incite - not to add. Let her win:

Old 09-02-2010 | 04:42 PM
  #33  
DCP's Avatar
DCP
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,176
Likes: 1
From: Houston
Default

Originally Posted by Quadcammer
moving to wet sumps is just another downgrade.
While I agree with the statement, I have seen no talk of engine failures due to oiling problems. I would feel better with a dry sump, but it's not like it seems to be an issue.
Old 09-02-2010 | 05:30 PM
  #34  
philooo's Avatar
philooo
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,332
Likes: 19
Default

From what I've been reading here, it seem that the beloved 993 engine had their problem as well, and when they happen, the expensive way of building them, then fall down to the owner.
If the 996 factory re-manufactured engine was $9k as it used to be 3 years ago, it would not be such a big issue, but now that it cost double, that's a lot more painful.

I think that if you want 'high reliability' engines, you simply need to get a GT3
Old 09-02-2010 | 07:30 PM
  #35  
quickxotica's Avatar
quickxotica
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 198
From: San Francisco & parts north
Default

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of knowledge = "996 engines have a high rate of failure due to [RMS leaks, IMS failure, wet sumps, fill-in-the-blank]. Thusly the slightly-informed masses shun the 996 causing depreciation that is out of all proportion to the small (<1%? I doubt anyone has any data to support a higher number...?) engine failure rate. Instead they go and spend as much or more $ on either 1) older 911s that are inferior in nearly all mechanical/ergonomic/performance/safety/cost respects relevant to a street car, or 2) a 997 mk1 that is nearly identical to the 996 (esp in engine design) but which weighs more and apparently looks better, or 3) a GT3 (or Turbo) that is way more car than they need for the street, weighs more, has much higher running-costs in terms of consumables and insurance, and is for the most part no more capable or enjoyable than a 996na at legal/safe limits on public roads.

As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).

And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(

Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.

Last edited by quickxotica; 09-02-2010 at 07:45 PM.
Old 09-02-2010 | 07:37 PM
  #36  
roadsession's Avatar
roadsession
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,774
Likes: 28
From: MA -
Default

Originally Posted by quickxotica
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of knowledge = "996 engines have a high rate of failure due to [RMS leaks, IMS failure, wet sumps, fill-in-the-blank]. Thusly the slightly-informed masses shun the 996 causing depreciation that is out of all proportion to the small (<1%? I doubt anyone has any data to support a higher number...?) engine failure rate. Instead they go and spend as much or more $ on either 1) older 911s that are inferior in nearly all mechanical/ergonomic/performance/safety/cost respects relevant to a street car, or 2) a 997 mk1 that is nearly identical to the 996 (esp in engine design) but which weighs more and apparently looks better, or 3) a GT3 (or Turbo) that is way more car than they need for the street, weighs more, has much higher running-costs in terms of consumables and insurance, and is for the most part no more capable or enjoyable than a 996na at legal/safe limits on public roads.

As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).

And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from the poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(

Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
POST OF THE YEAR
Old 09-02-2010 | 07:53 PM
  #37  
Janusz's Avatar
Janusz
Instructor
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Default

I like all Porsche including my current 2002 996. They make the best cars anywhere.
Old 09-03-2010 | 02:18 AM
  #38  
Pat's Avatar
Pat
Advanced
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Default

Not buyin' it, either. My 99.5 A4 1.8T had 100 more hp than stock, 120 more ft-lbs than stock, has 250K miles and ~20 track days and still has outstanding compression. The engine has never even been opened up.
Old 09-03-2010 | 02:36 AM
  #39  
Ahmet's Avatar
Ahmet
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 33
From: Cary NC
Default

I really like the M96, particularly in 3.6 guise. I've driven (and owned) several M3s on track and off. Even the S54 isn't as happy in the higher rev ranges, and feels strained, though the numbers would suggest otherwise with higher peak HP/torque figures. Alas the MKII 996 is faster, and is a worlds better experience to drive.

The "soft touch" plastics is a fact of life for modern cars, VW/AUDI/Porsche/BMW all have it. I do prefer the interior of my MKII car to the MKI, or the e46 for that matter, which also has the same issues. Also, the full leather option improves things nicely for both 996s. Before I bought my first 996 (MKI) I thought the e46 interior was a high mark, particularly for the better trimmed 330/M3 models, but again the 996 interior feels/looks better still.

I can say this till I'm blue in the face but from my experience the 996 is an outstandingly reliable platform, and feel much stiffer chassis/better built -with the noted exception of shutting the doors- than earlier Porsches I've owned. That said, I like many Porsches, and I'm kicking around the idea of an early 911 as well as a 924 -that doesn't mean I think either were "better" cars, just different.
Old 09-03-2010 | 05:03 AM
  #40  
Pac996's Avatar
Pac996
Drifting
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,919
Likes: 3
From: Aiea, HI
Default

Originally Posted by Eharrison
Jesus the sour grapes out here. Why do people buy the car then **** and moan about the engineering?

It gets really old. Buy something else.
Bingo !!!!!!

Originally Posted by soverystout
Really? how many 3.6 motors (of any configuration) that were naturallly aspirated made 320hp/271ft lbs of torque in 2002?

Make sure you compare apples to apples......
I've wished many time Porsche would tie in with the japanese bike engine guys so we could see some 14,000rpm 500hp natural asperated 3 liters. My 1 liter bike makes 170hp. I just wish and wish and wonder what break Porsche was romancing helping Harley Davidson build better engines for the vrod model. And to further ramble and halucinate I can see many complaining about engine failures blaming Porsche screwing up making the 14,000rpm cars with customers never having a clue about why they blew it reving the engine with no load.

Originally Posted by BruceP
I'm sorry, my mistake. You're a troll, then.
I could swear I have seen a forum feature some place where you can elect to ignore post from and member you elect to add to the ignore list. I can see the that feature was created now. Never owned a porsche? What is she, stalking an ex husband?

Originally Posted by ATL Fahrer
I love my 996. That's a qualified statement that no one can change. And when this one wears out, I'll get another Porsche - the newest best model I can afford.
Happy shopping to you and everyone else here.
Old 09-03-2010 | 12:47 PM
  #41  
LJpete's Avatar
LJpete
Pro
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 538
Likes: 1
From: Rockville, MD
Default

Originally Posted by quickxotica
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of knowledge = "996 engines have a high rate of failure due to [RMS leaks, IMS failure, wet sumps, fill-in-the-blank]. Thusly the slightly-informed masses shun the 996 causing depreciation that is out of all proportion to the small (<1%? I doubt anyone has any data to support a higher number...?) engine failure rate. Instead they go and spend as much or more $ on either 1) older 911s that are inferior in nearly all mechanical/ergonomic/performance/safety/cost respects relevant to a street car, or 2) a 997 mk1 that is nearly identical to the 996 (esp in engine design) but which weighs more and apparently looks better, or 3) a GT3 (or Turbo) that is way more car than they need for the street, weighs more, has much higher running-costs in terms of consumables and insurance, and is for the most part no more capable or enjoyable than a 996na at legal/safe limits on public roads.

As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).

And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(

Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
Cheers, couldn't have said it better. Needs to be made a sticky at the top of our forum.
Old 09-03-2010 | 01:07 PM
  #42  
Eharrison's Avatar
Eharrison
Nordschleife Master
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,194
Likes: 4
From: Temecula, CA
Default

Originally Posted by ATL Fahrer
I love my 996. That's a qualified statement that no one can change. And when this one wears out, I'll get another Porsche - the newest best model I can afford.
Me too, I really want to keep it and turn it into a full track car and then get a nice 997 4S cab. (Some years from now!)
Old 09-03-2010 | 01:16 PM
  #43  
Michael-Dallas's Avatar
Michael-Dallas
Pro
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 600
Likes: 11
From: Frisco, TX
Default

Originally Posted by Quadcammer
Sure. The M96 is not a terribly powerful powerplant, its reliability is suspect at best, and moving to wet sumps is just another downgrade. Porsche started making serious dollars per car with the 996 generation. Ask yourself how.

The transmission is fine, the engine is suspect, the interior is quite frankly a disaster (peeling/chipping paint, plastic seat controls, fuel/trunk levers, etc). The build quality differences of things being screwed together vs. clipped together, etc etc.



If you don't like it, don't read it.

Further, maybe some people expect more from a $75k vehicle.
Hah, funny.

A friend of mine recently took delivery of a 2003 Lamborghini Murcielago with 8.5k miles on it.

Every button in that car is sticky like honey and leaves a residue on your fingers. Common problem w/ the modern Gallardo and Murcielago.

Heck, sticky trim panels and buttons are common problem with the Ferrari f355, 360, 430, and probably the 458.

Maybe you'd expect more, but personally, the overall package outweigh the disadvantages.

Porsche made some sacrifices, but the overall direction was moving forward. And it's evident by the sales numbers.

/m
Old 09-03-2010 | 01:17 PM
  #44  
Ray S's Avatar
Ray S
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,794
Likes: 11
From: North Carolina
Default

Originally Posted by Quadcammer
I don't know and I don't care.
But, you'll take the time to post an opinion? Don't care......sure. Don't know.....if you say so.
Old 09-03-2010 | 10:52 PM
  #45  
fbgh2o's Avatar
fbgh2o
Odd Posts
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,633
Likes: 52
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

I love my car. For it's supposed flaws and issues, when I get in the car it surrounds me like a glove and the sound is something that makes adrenaline rush. No other car I have owned has provided that kind of visceral experience that invites one to jump in the car and just drive somewhere for the fun of it. I have had a 944 and 951, own a TR6, driven supercharged and V12 Jaguars (XKE, XJS and XKR) MGB, Lotus Turbo Esprit, Lambo Countach and none made me smile like my 996 does.

I am now going to sit in my car just because I want to.


Quick Reply: perspectives from my dealer master mechanic



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 07:06 PM.