perspectives from my dealer master mechanic
#33
#34
From what I've been reading here, it seem that the beloved 993 engine had their problem as well, and when they happen, the expensive way of building them, then fall down to the owner.
If the 996 factory re-manufactured engine was $9k as it used to be 3 years ago, it would not be such a big issue, but now that it cost double, that's a lot more painful.
I think that if you want 'high reliability' engines, you simply need to get a GT3
If the 996 factory re-manufactured engine was $9k as it used to be 3 years ago, it would not be such a big issue, but now that it cost double, that's a lot more painful.
I think that if you want 'high reliability' engines, you simply need to get a GT3
#35
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of knowledge = "996 engines have a high rate of failure due to [RMS leaks, IMS failure, wet sumps, fill-in-the-blank]. Thusly the slightly-informed masses shun the 996 causing depreciation that is out of all proportion to the small (<1%? I doubt anyone has any data to support a higher number...?) engine failure rate. Instead they go and spend as much or more $ on either 1) older 911s that are inferior in nearly all mechanical/ergonomic/performance/safety/cost respects relevant to a street car, or 2) a 997 mk1 that is nearly identical to the 996 (esp in engine design) but which weighs more and apparently looks better, or 3) a GT3 (or Turbo) that is way more car than they need for the street, weighs more, has much higher running-costs in terms of consumables and insurance, and is for the most part no more capable or enjoyable than a 996na at legal/safe limits on public roads.
As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).
And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(
Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).
And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(
Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
Last edited by quickxotica; 09-02-2010 at 07:45 PM.
#36
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of knowledge = "996 engines have a high rate of failure due to [RMS leaks, IMS failure, wet sumps, fill-in-the-blank]. Thusly the slightly-informed masses shun the 996 causing depreciation that is out of all proportion to the small (<1%? I doubt anyone has any data to support a higher number...?) engine failure rate. Instead they go and spend as much or more $ on either 1) older 911s that are inferior in nearly all mechanical/ergonomic/performance/safety/cost respects relevant to a street car, or 2) a 997 mk1 that is nearly identical to the 996 (esp in engine design) but which weighs more and apparently looks better, or 3) a GT3 (or Turbo) that is way more car than they need for the street, weighs more, has much higher running-costs in terms of consumables and insurance, and is for the most part no more capable or enjoyable than a 996na at legal/safe limits on public roads.
As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).
And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from the poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(
Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).
And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from the poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(
Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
#39
I really like the M96, particularly in 3.6 guise. I've driven (and owned) several M3s on track and off. Even the S54 isn't as happy in the higher rev ranges, and feels strained, though the numbers would suggest otherwise with higher peak HP/torque figures. Alas the MKII 996 is faster, and is a worlds better experience to drive.
The "soft touch" plastics is a fact of life for modern cars, VW/AUDI/Porsche/BMW all have it. I do prefer the interior of my MKII car to the MKI, or the e46 for that matter, which also has the same issues. Also, the full leather option improves things nicely for both 996s. Before I bought my first 996 (MKI) I thought the e46 interior was a high mark, particularly for the better trimmed 330/M3 models, but again the 996 interior feels/looks better still.
I can say this till I'm blue in the face but from my experience the 996 is an outstandingly reliable platform, and feel much stiffer chassis/better built -with the noted exception of shutting the doors- than earlier Porsches I've owned. That said, I like many Porsches, and I'm kicking around the idea of an early 911 as well as a 924 -that doesn't mean I think either were "better" cars, just different.
The "soft touch" plastics is a fact of life for modern cars, VW/AUDI/Porsche/BMW all have it. I do prefer the interior of my MKII car to the MKI, or the e46 for that matter, which also has the same issues. Also, the full leather option improves things nicely for both 996s. Before I bought my first 996 (MKI) I thought the e46 interior was a high mark, particularly for the better trimmed 330/M3 models, but again the 996 interior feels/looks better still.
I can say this till I'm blue in the face but from my experience the 996 is an outstandingly reliable platform, and feel much stiffer chassis/better built -with the noted exception of shutting the doors- than earlier Porsches I've owned. That said, I like many Porsches, and I'm kicking around the idea of an early 911 as well as a 924 -that doesn't mean I think either were "better" cars, just different.
#40
I could swear I have seen a forum feature some place where you can elect to ignore post from and member you elect to add to the ignore list. I can see the that feature was created now. Never owned a porsche? What is she, stalking an ex husband?
Happy shopping to you and everyone else here.
#41
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. A little bit of knowledge = "996 engines have a high rate of failure due to [RMS leaks, IMS failure, wet sumps, fill-in-the-blank]. Thusly the slightly-informed masses shun the 996 causing depreciation that is out of all proportion to the small (<1%? I doubt anyone has any data to support a higher number...?) engine failure rate. Instead they go and spend as much or more $ on either 1) older 911s that are inferior in nearly all mechanical/ergonomic/performance/safety/cost respects relevant to a street car, or 2) a 997 mk1 that is nearly identical to the 996 (esp in engine design) but which weighs more and apparently looks better, or 3) a GT3 (or Turbo) that is way more car than they need for the street, weighs more, has much higher running-costs in terms of consumables and insurance, and is for the most part no more capable or enjoyable than a 996na at legal/safe limits on public roads.
As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).
And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(
Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
As a result of all this irrational behavior, those who understand the 996 and it's weaknesses are able buy them at very reasonable prices and use the money left over for other purposes (including trackdays where they can get maximum enjoyment out of their awesome cars while learning more, more quickly and for less $ than someone in a gt3 or turbo).
And to the aircooled crowd: By all means, please do continue to enjoy the truck-like bump compliance and akward ergonomics of the older 911s while the clock runs down on your need for a $20k rebuild on a 2-valve motor that produces lackluster torque and suffers from poor throttle response. As long as you're having fun... do whatever floats your boat. Oh wait, but your not having fun... you're hanging out in an internet forum dedicated to a car you don't like and don't own. Hmmm.... is that because your car is too valuable to drive or too difficult to drive? Well, at least it looks good from the outside, right? Right? :-(
Sorry everyone, I guess I'm grumpy today too. Off soapbox now.
#42
Me too, I really want to keep it and turn it into a full track car and then get a nice 997 4S cab. (Some years from now!)
#43
Sure. The M96 is not a terribly powerful powerplant, its reliability is suspect at best, and moving to wet sumps is just another downgrade. Porsche started making serious dollars per car with the 996 generation. Ask yourself how.
The transmission is fine, the engine is suspect, the interior is quite frankly a disaster (peeling/chipping paint, plastic seat controls, fuel/trunk levers, etc). The build quality differences of things being screwed together vs. clipped together, etc etc.
If you don't like it, don't read it.
Further, maybe some people expect more from a $75k vehicle.
The transmission is fine, the engine is suspect, the interior is quite frankly a disaster (peeling/chipping paint, plastic seat controls, fuel/trunk levers, etc). The build quality differences of things being screwed together vs. clipped together, etc etc.
If you don't like it, don't read it.
Further, maybe some people expect more from a $75k vehicle.
A friend of mine recently took delivery of a 2003 Lamborghini Murcielago with 8.5k miles on it.
Every button in that car is sticky like honey and leaves a residue on your fingers. Common problem w/ the modern Gallardo and Murcielago.
Heck, sticky trim panels and buttons are common problem with the Ferrari f355, 360, 430, and probably the 458.
Maybe you'd expect more, but personally, the overall package outweigh the disadvantages.
Porsche made some sacrifices, but the overall direction was moving forward. And it's evident by the sales numbers.
/m
#45
I love my car. For it's supposed flaws and issues, when I get in the car it surrounds me like a glove and the sound is something that makes adrenaline rush. No other car I have owned has provided that kind of visceral experience that invites one to jump in the car and just drive somewhere for the fun of it. I have had a 944 and 951, own a TR6, driven supercharged and V12 Jaguars (XKE, XJS and XKR) MGB, Lotus Turbo Esprit, Lambo Countach and none made me smile like my 996 does.
I am now going to sit in my car just because I want to.
I am now going to sit in my car just because I want to.