supark

People who would purchase a BMW M car fit similar mindset to those who would purchase a 911. As you can see, that assumption is proven out by the fact that there have been several people here posting of their experiences owning both. If you read the contents of any of my posts to date, I have not said that the BMW is "better" than the Porsche. The M3 is the better all purpose tool while sacrificing some driver engagement/enjoyment - this to a certain degree isn't just an opinion, it's a matter of engineering goals for each car. As I've said, begrudging a 911 for its storage space is ludicrous for that reason as well.

I have also already noted that I'm not looking for someone to convince me - actively searching for the right one. As I've said the main reason I've waited this long is because living circumstances/practicality prevented me from it. Strangely, it seems like the 996 market is pretty limited right now - been hard to find a decent example. I have found one that's in a color combo that I like and have an offer out on it, but I'm a little wary of the fact that it has had 4 owners..

At the end of the day, what all of us are here are gearheads and enthusiasts, regardless of the badge on the hood. Because of that I'm certain that I'm not the only one that's curious to hear experiences from those who've owned both. Now back at the matter of hand..

sml

The answer is in his first sentence ... QUOTE ...

"I'm likely going to sell my much loved E46 M3 in order to get a 996 911 C2"

ArneeA

Yeah, the E39 is a great car. I'd love to get an E39 M5 when circumstances permit.

I was coming from a lightly modded M3, with Brembo brakes all around, Dinan Stage 3 Suspension, LTW flywheel, M5 clutch, solid RTABs, H&R sways, Supersprint titanium cat-back exhaust (midpipe, s-pipe, muffler), SSK, AFE intake, LTW battery, etc.

And even then, the first time I drove the *stock* C4S from the dealer, it felt very direct and more raw.

I took my C4S to a canyon run after owning it for a few days and the difference is amazing between the two cars. I used to take the M3 to the track, auto-x, and canyons and while the car provided great confidence, it still didn't feel as connected as the 996.

Others have posted similar sentiments, I suppose.

Pat

I have found in situations like this going to drive a both a couple times really clarifies things. No one can apply your priorities to the two choices as well as you can. I bet your decision will be much easier if you go drive both a couple times.

mooty

if u can have only one car, then bmw is a decent compromise.
if u can have many cars, then add a porsche to the stable. porsche is not a car, it's a toy.

supark

Hmm.. ninja edit from your last post?

Seriously man? How does my original post call for that kind of a response? I have been nothing but respectful and I have said multiple times that I am planning on purchasing a 911 and totally agree that it's not as connected and sporting of a car compared to a 911. I'm slightly curious why you have owned 3 out of the 4 gens of M3s if you think "they are all pretty pathetic"?

mooty

i edited the orig response b/c i didn't understand your post as i was on iphone. when the whole post loaded, i read again and i realize i didn't know what you asked and i was being an *******. thus i edited.

i owned a bunch of M3's b/c like my "new" response stated that porsche is really a toy, not a car. the rear seat is useless and the trunk is useless, so i needed a bigger car. i have a bunch of audi S4 and M3's for that purpose. but compared to porsches from boxster to GT3's, bmw of any sort really pales in comparison, especially if you do a lot of sport/track driving. i can make OEM m3's of any kind melt in less than 5 laps at laguna seca. even modded one's wont last long, for one thing, bmw has NO brakes. most well driven M3's on track are on stop tech unless rules forbid that.

so pls accept my apologies for my asshat response and use the short 2nd post as a guide for porsche shopping.

and also as toys are, they cost much more to maintain. they dont break often, but when they do, parts are much more $$$.

supark

Haha no worries and apology accepted

mooty

^thank you.

996 has a bunch of issues too.
IMS, RMS, do some searches you will see. but they are also very nice to drive.
as you know bimmers also has their "issues". bad diff in E36, self destructing waterpump and rear sub frames.

pick ur poison, but as far as driving is concerned. once you drive a p car, it's very hard not to keep buying them. do keep in mind last 996 was made in 2004 (unless GT3, which is 2005), so the earlier cars' suspensions are dead and will feel like waterbed. dont judge the car with bad suspension.

do DO NOT lift.

supark

Yeah the "quirks" I've experienced owning various E36s, E39s, E46s and recently an E10 (nice little agave green 72 2002) lets me put porsche 996 issues into perspective. If you believe internet forums, you'd believe that 1 out of 10 E46 M3s are ticking time bombs with rod bearings, subframe mounts and vanos held together with a combination of elmers glue and rubber bands. Coolant systems are dreadful in bimmers - I mean, how many radiators and water pumps does bmw need to make to figure out how to make one that doesn't grenade after anywhere between 50-80k miles?? That and subframe mounts ripping holes and cracks through the unibody??? Anyways, that's why I completely take "sky is falling" threads on forums with a huge grain of salt - hopefully my skepticism serves me well in my soon to be Porsche ownership!

But yeah, I've logged many hours of company time to research on the various failings of the 964, 993 and 996 Random stuff like the door check strap on the 993, cylinder head seepage on the 964s, and of course the dreaded IMS, D chunk and RMS issues on the 996.

The RMS I'm not concerned about - even if it is somewhat common, it's not an engine killer unless it fails completely and spews all the engine oil out. Even then, you'd have to be an idiot and continue to drive the car to cause irreparable damage and also I don't think complete failure of the RMS has been reported. The IMS I am definitely more worried about, but as for engine killer failings, the LNE's preventative fix is relatively cheap and easy to install. The D chunk issues I've read are supposedly from ill calibrated casting machines in early cars. For cars with mileage range I'm looking at should either be proven out as a good example or would have already been replaced, as I'm specifically looking for a car with just over 60k miles on it with both the 30k and 60k services performed.

I work on my cars, and transmission removal on the 996 looking at various DIYs seems a fair bit easier than front engine/rwd cars. Wrestling a 100+ lb exhaust underneath a car when you're doing a clutch job by yourself is no fun. I'm likely going to purchase the LNE IMS upgrade as soon as I pick up my perfect 996. I've been lucky to find two locally that I've test driven, one is vesuvios grey which has a purple tinge that I'm not crazy about even though the car is in BEAUTIFUL condition, and the other has had 4 owners which makes me a little leery in terms of resale.. Perfect one would be black with tan interior, 6-speed, litronic, with just over 60k miles. I've already started to build up my initial mod list.. probably a slight drop on H&Rs, 20% tint, IMS retrofit as mentioned, and turbo twists.

ArneeA

heh. lifting is fun, just be prepared to countersteer and power over
of course, I have the AWD to save my @ss for lifting.

supark

Hmm I may have found my car.. pretty much fits all of my criteria and then some: black exterior, tan interior, manual trans, just over 60k miles, and even better - full leather interior: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1812386442.html

Anyone want to take a car out for a test drive in Los Gatos? haha

RPMulli

I'd rather take an Audi S4 over an M3... just throwing it out there as a previous S4 owner.. haha.

P7

I had an 01 M3 a while back - now an 02 996 C2 - so here are my comments on both

- The E46 M3 suspension is definitely harsher than the 996 - one of the reasons I got rid of the E46 M3 after 6 months was the very harsh suspension mainly for anyone in the back seats - my wife and kids could not tolerate the ride in the M3 but are OK in the 996

- Steering wise, there is no comparison at all - the 996 steering is amazing - The M3 steering felt slow and not communicative in comparison

- I feel the 02 996 is faster than the E46 M3 at any speed

- shifter feel - again there is no comparison - I found the M3 shifter to be pretty bad for such a car

- I found the seats to be more supportive and more comfortable for me in the 996

- Overall driver feel is subjective but here again where I found the 996 way better than the M3

- 996 is a lot more nimble and I did feel the heavy weight of the M3

Bottom line and again this is very subjective, I feel the 996 is a very special car to drive and wroth every single penny - In comparison, the M3 was not special in any category other than speed and the engine power delivery and felt was not worth the money I paid for it.

ROK

I don't agree with everything's that's been said here so let me add my cents.

-Both cars need short shifter kits to feel good so that's a moot point for me; it's only in the 997 where Porsche gets it right

-The E46 M3 is definitely the quieter, comfier ride, but both cars are horrible dailys because they're small, too nice to park anywhere if you're **** about maintaining the aesthetic --> always ideal to have a nice truck-ish/SUV as an urban bruiser for my lifestyle needs (bachelor who parties a lot)

-911 has a much stronger fraternity of followers and there's good reason why

-Get the MK2 996 as I'd rather have a very nicely maintained E46 M3 over an MK1 996 as it looks a lot more dated in my eyes than the MK2 (don't even need to get into the technical upgrades)

-M96 has the best engine sound (think jet engine at cruising speeds wow)

-E46 M3 has a nicer standard interior (very few variances); but a tarted up 996 interior (full leather, carbon, painted parts) kills it in quality level (hard to find a truly fully optioned 996 car though $$$). For example, if you want the carbon steering wheel with the leather stitched airbag, carnewal will charge you well over $2K. Porsche dealer? You'd be crazy.

-996 MK2 (I haven't driven the MK1 much) chassis, suspension, steering feel everything is sporting whereas the E46 you understand it's fundamentally a commuter car made in the hundreds of thousands