Gasp.....Replicas??? Where to buy
06-25-2010, 06:00 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
For me the ride isn't worse, but
1) bent wheels, you're driving like an old man dodging every pothole and surface irregularity
2) tires = 2x the price
3) I feel like oversteer is much more sudden , not as progressive. Maybe this is because the limits are higher, maybe this is because I am running a 315 rear and 255 front (I do not have PSM), but I feel like the car doesn't warn me as much when it's about to swap ends. Not a big deal on the street.
I think 19s are great with stock porsche suspensions looks wise (half inch on either side, not noticeably larger quite honestly), 18s can look great lowered or if the wheels are spokes edge to edge (meaning without a giant lip or two/three piece design). Those avant gardes look so big because the spokes come all the way to the edge of the rim, most 19s won't look that big
1) bent wheels, you're driving like an old man dodging every pothole and surface irregularity
2) tires = 2x the price
3) I feel like oversteer is much more sudden , not as progressive. Maybe this is because the limits are higher, maybe this is because I am running a 315 rear and 255 front (I do not have PSM), but I feel like the car doesn't warn me as much when it's about to swap ends. Not a big deal on the street.
I think 19s are great with stock porsche suspensions looks wise (half inch on either side, not noticeably larger quite honestly), 18s can look great lowered or if the wheels are spokes edge to edge (meaning without a giant lip or two/three piece design). Those avant gardes look so big because the spokes come all the way to the edge of the rim, most 19s won't look that big
06-25-2010, 07:15 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
+1 the ride seems softer to me on 19"s, however I did notice a taller sidewall with the Verdstein tire then with the 18" Bridgestones. If I was to get really picky I suppose the perfect size wheel proportionately would be a 18.5". One other thing is to make sure the wheel does not rub with the 19" lock to lock mine just bearly does and think it is due to the tire I am running.
06-25-2010, 07:37 PM
#35
Team Owner
How similar is the suspension/AWD/front end components between a 996 C4 and a 996TT? I seriously considered putting 19s on my car recently but decided against it and believe that they wouldn't fit properly on my C4 because of a suspension piece that might not exist on a RWD model. I've also seen other posters mention it in the past. It almost seems like it could be done but you'd have to have the absolutely perfect offset to get it to work.
Anyone?
Anyone?
06-26-2010, 12:44 AM
#36
Subscribing as I've been toying with various options for now.
I'm not sure if I wanna pay $1k for 1 BBS RS-GT rim that needs replacement...
It's really too bad those Avant Garde rims only come in 19's as the weight is pretty good considering they are replica's. I would imagine if it came in 18's, they could weigh in the low to mid 20's easily.
I'm not sure if I wanna pay $1k for 1 BBS RS-GT rim that needs replacement...
It's really too bad those Avant Garde rims only come in 19's as the weight is pretty good considering they are replica's. I would imagine if it came in 18's, they could weigh in the low to mid 20's easily.
06-26-2010, 02:15 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/n...mb-thread.html
06-26-2010, 03:56 AM
#38
Intermediate
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Charles, IL
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dell:
I had these exact wheels mounted on my 2003 C4S today. They look incredible; and to answer your question, the ride seems better than what I had with the stock 18" turbo twists. The tires do not rub - fitment was perfect. I could not be happier! I chose Hanook tires. Rear: 305/30/19, Front 235/35/19. Perfect!
I had these exact wheels mounted on my 2003 C4S today. They look incredible; and to answer your question, the ride seems better than what I had with the stock 18" turbo twists. The tires do not rub - fitment was perfect. I could not be happier! I chose Hanook tires. Rear: 305/30/19, Front 235/35/19. Perfect!
06-26-2010, 03:57 AM
#39
Advanced
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
those Avants are supposed to be solid wheels from a build standpoint - a few guys over at M3forum got some sets and they're pretty much the same ones that vendors like VMR and Europeanautosource sell
06-26-2010, 11:13 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
I've posted this before, but re: AWD cars please read (also mirrors my experience, 19s feel better until about 8/10ths, after which they feel unpredictable)
http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...est/index.html
Porsche 996 Turbo Wheel and Tire Test - Why Change A Good Thing?
Plus Sizing Your Prized Euro
From the May, 2005 issue of European Car
By Jay Chen
Photography by Robert Hallstrom
For countless years now we've featured cars with plus-sized wheels and tires. Wheels and tires are often the first things that get changed on a modified car. Funny thing is, no one's really thought about what changing them does. Sure there's endless speculation about rotational inertia, fuel economy and ride quality-blah blah blah. As far as we know, no one's even posted basic performance numbers for a car with new wheels and rubber. So we decided to find our favorite European car, test it, slap on some plus-one high-end wheels and tires and test it again. We thought it would be an open and shut case of added traction and possibly slower acceleration. What we found came as quite a surprise and still has me scratching my head.
As far as good things go, the Porsche 996 Turbo is about as good as it gets. For tires, we picked the best street tire we know of, the Michelin Pilot Sport 2. These were mounted on 19-inch Avus AF-M02 wheels by Shoreline Motoring of Huntington Beach, Calif. Nothing but the best for our European thoroughbreds.
In each configuration (stock and plus-one) we put the Carrera through a 700-foot slalom, 80 to zero mph braking and 200-foot skidpad tests. Each test helped us evaluate whether the difference was on account of the tires or wheels. We left out quarter mile acceleration tests just because replacing 996TT transmissions were out of our editorial budget, or our insurance coverage for that matter. Each test was performed at California Speedway's test facilities on the same day back to back, which meant a lot of tire changing. I now understand why no one else does this.
The Turbo came riding on stock chrome wheels and factory recommended N3 tires. N-Specification tires are fine-tuned tires designed by O.E. tire suppliers in conjunction with Porsche to meet its traction, noise, comfort and treadwear needs. Tires are rated from N0, which are mostly snow sport tires, to N5, the tires found on the GT2. The number on the N rating is the number of times a specific tire size from a particular tire manufacturer has gone through the homologation process. N-spec tires wear an N-spec badge on their sidewalls and are available through Porsche's dealer network. The N-Spec tires for the 996 include the Bridgestone Potenza S-02, Continental ContiSportContact 2, Michelin Pilot Sport and PS2 and Pirelli P Zero Asimmetrico, Rosso and 240 Winter Snow Sport. Although these tires share the same names as the tires available to the replacement aftermarket, they are not necessarily identical. The 19-inch Michelin PS2s we used weren't N-Spec units even though 19-inch N-Spec PS2s are available for the 997.
From our initial street driving impressions we knew the PS2s were a huge improvement over the tires mounted on the stock wheels. The stiffer wheel and tire combination added a more precise steering feel and more road feedback. Grip was dramatically increased while road noise was lessened. After putting roughly 200 break-in miles on the tires, we headed for the track.
We expected the new PS2s to be the better tire, so it was no surprise to see superior grip in both the braking and the skidpad tests. With the massive ABS brakes on the Turbo, braking distance is strictly a function of tire grip. Every pass with the PS2 was significantly shorter than the best braking distance on the N3 tires, regardless of tire temperature. The skidpad results, however, raised eyebrows. As predicted, the increased lateral grip did result in better numbers, but with the plus-sized wheels and tires the 996 could maintain higher average lateral g forces while in severe oversteer. Depending on the amount of throttle steering, the plus-sized 996 could run the skidpad in slight oversteer or extreme drift angles. Most cars obtain the best skidpad numbers when driven at a speed where a neutral attitude is maintained, which was exactly the case for the Turbo on the stock wheels and tires with the PSM turn on. This made no sense, since the new rear wheels are significantly wider than stock and offer added contact patch. If anything, the car should have understeered. Clearly there was more grip, but the stock 996's vehicle dynamics controls and suspension were not calibrated for it. I assume higher lateral g forces could easily be achieved if the car was set up for the larger wheels and tires. Results were not significantly different with PSM enabled or disabled.
The slalom yielded similar confusion. Where the stock Turbo blitzed through the cones with predictable precision, the larger wheel and tire package caused it to handle with dangerous unpredictability, sometimes in oversteer, sometimes in understeer. Even just after performing perfect slaloms on stock tires, we managed to continuously clip cones while attempting to get a better plus-one time. The car could be faster through the slalom, but we weren't about to wrap a $150,000 car around a light pole to find out how much faster.
I consulted Michelin and Porsche engineers along with some seasoned Porsche racers about this. Porsche's engineers did not find our problem surprising and said, "All the fuel and chassis control systems on the 996 Turbo are built and tested around the wheel and tire size and their corresponding rolling radius. Altering the standard size not only has adverse effects on the performance and handling but most likely could end in damaged drivetrain parts such as a broken front differential or viscous clutch damage (not a warranty matter). The weight of the wheels and tires is not a major factor." This just goes to show how dialed in Porsche's cars are out of the box.
Porsche racers experience similar problems when using R-compound tires on stock cars. The added grip and increased overall spring rate overworks the suspension and effectively makes the car roll too much, thus altering the weight transfer and tire load.
Without a doubt, the Turbo looks fantastic with the 19-inch Avus wheels and we know the Michelin PS2s are great tires. On the street, this combination has more grip than the average driver can sensibly overcome. You'd have to drive this car at nine-tenths to get it to even start behaving as we've described. But if you do, be prepared for it to potentially bite you back. If I were to do this to my own Carrera (not that I can afford one), I'd stick with the factory sizes and the N-Spec PS2s. Bigger wheels and tires are great, but dialing in suspension systems and vehicle dynamics electronics better than the Germans will be next to impossible.
Wheels Tires Front Rear (F) Tire Size (R) Tire Size (F) wheel & (R) wheel & tire wt. (lb) Skid Pad (g)tire Wt. (lb) Slalom (mph) Braking (ft)
Stock 996 N3 8x18 11x18 225/40R18 295/30R18 45.6 56.4 0.91 70.4 215.1
Avus Michelin 8.5x19 12x19 235/35R19 315/25R19 48.7 57.6 0.96 67.2 191.4
AF-M02 Pilot Sport 2
Best,
Hans
http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...est/index.html
Porsche 996 Turbo Wheel and Tire Test - Why Change A Good Thing?
Plus Sizing Your Prized Euro
From the May, 2005 issue of European Car
By Jay Chen
Photography by Robert Hallstrom
For countless years now we've featured cars with plus-sized wheels and tires. Wheels and tires are often the first things that get changed on a modified car. Funny thing is, no one's really thought about what changing them does. Sure there's endless speculation about rotational inertia, fuel economy and ride quality-blah blah blah. As far as we know, no one's even posted basic performance numbers for a car with new wheels and rubber. So we decided to find our favorite European car, test it, slap on some plus-one high-end wheels and tires and test it again. We thought it would be an open and shut case of added traction and possibly slower acceleration. What we found came as quite a surprise and still has me scratching my head.
As far as good things go, the Porsche 996 Turbo is about as good as it gets. For tires, we picked the best street tire we know of, the Michelin Pilot Sport 2. These were mounted on 19-inch Avus AF-M02 wheels by Shoreline Motoring of Huntington Beach, Calif. Nothing but the best for our European thoroughbreds.
In each configuration (stock and plus-one) we put the Carrera through a 700-foot slalom, 80 to zero mph braking and 200-foot skidpad tests. Each test helped us evaluate whether the difference was on account of the tires or wheels. We left out quarter mile acceleration tests just because replacing 996TT transmissions were out of our editorial budget, or our insurance coverage for that matter. Each test was performed at California Speedway's test facilities on the same day back to back, which meant a lot of tire changing. I now understand why no one else does this.
The Turbo came riding on stock chrome wheels and factory recommended N3 tires. N-Specification tires are fine-tuned tires designed by O.E. tire suppliers in conjunction with Porsche to meet its traction, noise, comfort and treadwear needs. Tires are rated from N0, which are mostly snow sport tires, to N5, the tires found on the GT2. The number on the N rating is the number of times a specific tire size from a particular tire manufacturer has gone through the homologation process. N-spec tires wear an N-spec badge on their sidewalls and are available through Porsche's dealer network. The N-Spec tires for the 996 include the Bridgestone Potenza S-02, Continental ContiSportContact 2, Michelin Pilot Sport and PS2 and Pirelli P Zero Asimmetrico, Rosso and 240 Winter Snow Sport. Although these tires share the same names as the tires available to the replacement aftermarket, they are not necessarily identical. The 19-inch Michelin PS2s we used weren't N-Spec units even though 19-inch N-Spec PS2s are available for the 997.
From our initial street driving impressions we knew the PS2s were a huge improvement over the tires mounted on the stock wheels. The stiffer wheel and tire combination added a more precise steering feel and more road feedback. Grip was dramatically increased while road noise was lessened. After putting roughly 200 break-in miles on the tires, we headed for the track.
We expected the new PS2s to be the better tire, so it was no surprise to see superior grip in both the braking and the skidpad tests. With the massive ABS brakes on the Turbo, braking distance is strictly a function of tire grip. Every pass with the PS2 was significantly shorter than the best braking distance on the N3 tires, regardless of tire temperature. The skidpad results, however, raised eyebrows. As predicted, the increased lateral grip did result in better numbers, but with the plus-sized wheels and tires the 996 could maintain higher average lateral g forces while in severe oversteer. Depending on the amount of throttle steering, the plus-sized 996 could run the skidpad in slight oversteer or extreme drift angles. Most cars obtain the best skidpad numbers when driven at a speed where a neutral attitude is maintained, which was exactly the case for the Turbo on the stock wheels and tires with the PSM turn on. This made no sense, since the new rear wheels are significantly wider than stock and offer added contact patch. If anything, the car should have understeered. Clearly there was more grip, but the stock 996's vehicle dynamics controls and suspension were not calibrated for it. I assume higher lateral g forces could easily be achieved if the car was set up for the larger wheels and tires. Results were not significantly different with PSM enabled or disabled.
The slalom yielded similar confusion. Where the stock Turbo blitzed through the cones with predictable precision, the larger wheel and tire package caused it to handle with dangerous unpredictability, sometimes in oversteer, sometimes in understeer. Even just after performing perfect slaloms on stock tires, we managed to continuously clip cones while attempting to get a better plus-one time. The car could be faster through the slalom, but we weren't about to wrap a $150,000 car around a light pole to find out how much faster.
I consulted Michelin and Porsche engineers along with some seasoned Porsche racers about this. Porsche's engineers did not find our problem surprising and said, "All the fuel and chassis control systems on the 996 Turbo are built and tested around the wheel and tire size and their corresponding rolling radius. Altering the standard size not only has adverse effects on the performance and handling but most likely could end in damaged drivetrain parts such as a broken front differential or viscous clutch damage (not a warranty matter). The weight of the wheels and tires is not a major factor." This just goes to show how dialed in Porsche's cars are out of the box.
Porsche racers experience similar problems when using R-compound tires on stock cars. The added grip and increased overall spring rate overworks the suspension and effectively makes the car roll too much, thus altering the weight transfer and tire load.
Without a doubt, the Turbo looks fantastic with the 19-inch Avus wheels and we know the Michelin PS2s are great tires. On the street, this combination has more grip than the average driver can sensibly overcome. You'd have to drive this car at nine-tenths to get it to even start behaving as we've described. But if you do, be prepared for it to potentially bite you back. If I were to do this to my own Carrera (not that I can afford one), I'd stick with the factory sizes and the N-Spec PS2s. Bigger wheels and tires are great, but dialing in suspension systems and vehicle dynamics electronics better than the Germans will be next to impossible.
Wheels Tires Front Rear (F) Tire Size (R) Tire Size (F) wheel & (R) wheel & tire wt. (lb) Skid Pad (g)tire Wt. (lb) Slalom (mph) Braking (ft)
Stock 996 N3 8x18 11x18 225/40R18 295/30R18 45.6 56.4 0.91 70.4 215.1
Avus Michelin 8.5x19 12x19 235/35R19 315/25R19 48.7 57.6 0.96 67.2 191.4
AF-M02 Pilot Sport 2
Best,
Hans
06-26-2010, 07:04 PM
#44
Weathergirl
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I've posted this before, but re: AWD cars please read (also mirrors my experience, 19s feel better until about 8/10ths, after which they feel unpredictable)
http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...est/index.html
http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...est/index.html
06-26-2010, 11:07 PM
#45
Intermediate
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Charles, IL
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts