Is AWD less fun to drive?
06-11-2012, 02:07 PM
#46
Addict
Rennlist Member
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I enjoy tracking my car at least twice a year. I am fortunate to live close to Willow Springs, and it is a really fun track. I have not yet tracked the C4 that I currently own, but I have been fortunate enough to have drived my friend's C4 at Willow Springs, and it was alot more exciting then my two wheel drive Porsche.
I guess it is just a matter of opinion
I guess it is just a matter of opinion
06-13-2012, 12:17 AM
#47
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ephrata, PA, USA now. Originally from the UK
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For those that have driven both cars, does AWD make a Porsche less fun to drive?
I'm shopping for my Pcar right now. Originally, I was set on AWD because of where I live but I'm starting to rethink that. RWD cars are much easier to come across on the used market and I think they may be more fun.
All I've ever owned (besides motorcycles) are 4x4 trucks that are incredibly light on the rear end and I very rarely use 4WD. What I'm getting at is, even in a truck, AWD isn't really necessary. I'd imagine that in a Porsche, it's even less necessary.
Is a RWD car more fun to toss around on a day to day basis? I'll admit to enjoy sliding the rear end around quite a bit when the conditions call for it.
I'm shopping for my Pcar right now. Originally, I was set on AWD because of where I live but I'm starting to rethink that. RWD cars are much easier to come across on the used market and I think they may be more fun.
All I've ever owned (besides motorcycles) are 4x4 trucks that are incredibly light on the rear end and I very rarely use 4WD. What I'm getting at is, even in a truck, AWD isn't really necessary. I'd imagine that in a Porsche, it's even less necessary.
Is a RWD car more fun to toss around on a day to day basis? I'll admit to enjoy sliding the rear end around quite a bit when the conditions call for it.
06-13-2012, 12:50 PM
#48
Drifting
I have had it transfer power to the front twice in 10 years.
First time TC off. I was at a stop sign on a very sandy back road. I dropped the clutch at 3500 rpm and pulled away. Power went directly to the front.
It felt like I just blew the motor. HP felt like it had been cut it half. It crawled away from 1st to 2nd and I thought I screwed something up so I switched to 3rd and 4th and let off the throttle and then power was restored to the rear wheels.
2nd time TC on. I was at the track and my left rear wheel drove over coolant. I saw no PSM light come on but I instantly felt like I just blew my motor. I did not know I had driven over coolant at this time. I powered out and the power was just not there, worried I let off and then got back on the power a little latter to try and see if there was any problem with the engine and power was back again.
I went in the pits thinking the worse but got out and saw nothing wrong. I went back out and then I noticed the wet coolant marks in one of the corners, then I knew that was what had happened.
I know it does work. Does it work much. Not really. I have been in a couple slides and the track where I can grantee you the front were sent more power the 5% but not like the other times.
PSM did come on but I think by the time PSM cuts in power has all ready been transferred to the front.
Assuming you mean the TC functionality of PSM there is ZERO chance for this to happen. PSM's TC mode activates, dethrottling the engine "braking" the rear wheels, long before tha VC can take a "set".
Personally I think the VC is better then the new 997.2 AWD. The new system is too good and constantly controls each wheels power. Where as the old system is 95% rear wheel drive until you really need it.
First time TC off. I was at a stop sign on a very sandy back road. I dropped the clutch at 3500 rpm and pulled away. Power went directly to the front.
It felt like I just blew the motor. HP felt like it had been cut it half. It crawled away from 1st to 2nd and I thought I screwed something up so I switched to 3rd and 4th and let off the throttle and then power was restored to the rear wheels.
2nd time TC on. I was at the track and my left rear wheel drove over coolant. I saw no PSM light come on but I instantly felt like I just blew my motor. I did not know I had driven over coolant at this time. I powered out and the power was just not there, worried I let off and then got back on the power a little latter to try and see if there was any problem with the engine and power was back again.
I went in the pits thinking the worse but got out and saw nothing wrong. I went back out and then I noticed the wet coolant marks in one of the corners, then I knew that was what had happened.
I know it does work. Does it work much. Not really. I have been in a couple slides and the track where I can grantee you the front were sent more power the 5% but not like the other times.
PSM did come on but I think by the time PSM cuts in power has all ready been transferred to the front.
Assuming you mean the TC functionality of PSM there is ZERO chance for this to happen. PSM's TC mode activates, dethrottling the engine "braking" the rear wheels, long before tha VC can take a "set".
Personally I think the VC is better then the new 997.2 AWD. The new system is too good and constantly controls each wheels power. Where as the old system is 95% rear wheel drive until you really need it.
Pre-emptively, yes, constantly, no.
Unless you have some sort of typo regarding the placement of the paragraph following the "First time TC off" sentence you never had TC off.
06-13-2012, 01:10 PM
#49
Drifting
No, just being factual. Same thing happened to me switching from '00 RX300 to '01 RX300, addition of TC made the VC useless(***). '00 VC was fully functional, no TC and quick onset of VC "solidity".
But that put too much stress on the driveline components so Lexus "revised" the VC for no or little functionality, always "flaccid".
*** I Figured out a way to disable TC "as needed" only to then discover that for the '01 and after RX300's the VC fluid had been reformulated so as to provide NO "undue" driveline component stress. Post RX300 production the VC was dropped entirely, rellying exclusively on TC for F/awd functionality.
But that put too much stress on the driveline components so Lexus "revised" the VC for no or little functionality, always "flaccid".
*** I Figured out a way to disable TC "as needed" only to then discover that for the '01 and after RX300's the VC fluid had been reformulated so as to provide NO "undue" driveline component stress. Post RX300 production the VC was dropped entirely, rellying exclusively on TC for F/awd functionality.
06-13-2012, 01:44 PM
#50
Nordschleife Master
No error. PSM was turned off. It will remain turned off until you hit the brakes. I did not hit the brakes. There was no engine cut off. All the power from the rear was sent to the front. Which I believe is a max of 40%. This I believe why is that the engine felt like it had no power.
06-13-2012, 04:50 PM
#51
Well, I've driven a couple high powered rear wheel drive cars and I've had two AWD sports cars.
Driving anything with more than 350hp to just two tires does indeed take more attention to get the most out of it...and yes, it can be very exciting sliding around corners.
I've had both a "real" AWD system in my Eagle Talon (with only 225 hp) felt heavy and it was nearly impossible to break it loose going around corners...even in the snow. It was am impressively planted car. Unfortunately, I never did get to track it, but the fun I had on the off/on ramps was enough that I would say it was not only confidence building but pretty exciting as well.
Now, as for my C4S...I've only had her on 1 proper racetrack...willow springs. Compared to my old talon, the 911 feels so light and nimble, I don't notice any weight penalty. It really does drive like a RWD car...but with a dash of FWD assist. Must be the whole 95/5 power split when running normally. I find this setup aids in keeping the nose pointed where I want to go, even when I'm sliding the rear a bit. So when I am pushing it, I'm not quite as worried about the *** coming around on my. To date it's never happened (knock on wood).
It's fun in the snow, but not as fun as the talon. I've never gotten stuck, but it isn't a real AWD system and I have spent time spinning the rears.
Frankly, I think this system is the best of both worlds for a sports car. you get some of the benefits of AWD but keep more of the benefits of RWD too. There are sacrifices in both areas, but they are really small.
YMMV
sean
Driving anything with more than 350hp to just two tires does indeed take more attention to get the most out of it...and yes, it can be very exciting sliding around corners.
I've had both a "real" AWD system in my Eagle Talon (with only 225 hp) felt heavy and it was nearly impossible to break it loose going around corners...even in the snow. It was am impressively planted car. Unfortunately, I never did get to track it, but the fun I had on the off/on ramps was enough that I would say it was not only confidence building but pretty exciting as well.
Now, as for my C4S...I've only had her on 1 proper racetrack...willow springs. Compared to my old talon, the 911 feels so light and nimble, I don't notice any weight penalty. It really does drive like a RWD car...but with a dash of FWD assist. Must be the whole 95/5 power split when running normally. I find this setup aids in keeping the nose pointed where I want to go, even when I'm sliding the rear a bit. So when I am pushing it, I'm not quite as worried about the *** coming around on my. To date it's never happened (knock on wood).
It's fun in the snow, but not as fun as the talon. I've never gotten stuck, but it isn't a real AWD system and I have spent time spinning the rears.
Frankly, I think this system is the best of both worlds for a sports car. you get some of the benefits of AWD but keep more of the benefits of RWD too. There are sacrifices in both areas, but they are really small.
YMMV
sean
