Targa 2002 roof rattles FIXED!
04-02-2016, 05:47 AM
#17
For those looking for more pictures, I posted some of a Targa roof and hatch in another thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post13161883
I also have the shiny spot where the roof rubs - as I think can be seen in one of the photos. I haven't put Velcro in the corners yet, though I think I'll give it a try. Or I might start with some black duct tape first.
(I posted my photos in a 997 thread. When I was shopping for Targas, whether 996 or 997, that thread and some other 997 threads caught my attention, so I subscribed, and forgot/didn't know there were good 996 Targa roof threads. And then right after posting the pictures, a link to this thead appeared at the bottom of the page.)
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post13161883
I also have the shiny spot where the roof rubs - as I think can be seen in one of the photos. I haven't put Velcro in the corners yet, though I think I'll give it a try. Or I might start with some black duct tape first.
(I posted my photos in a 997 thread. When I was shopping for Targas, whether 996 or 997, that thread and some other 997 threads caught my attention, so I subscribed, and forgot/didn't know there were good 996 Targa roof threads. And then right after posting the pictures, a link to this thead appeared at the bottom of the page.)
04-02-2016, 10:57 PM
#18
I spent some time working on my roof today. Following advice in 997 forums, I use McLube on the hard parts, and 303 aerospace protectant on the soft rubbery bits. Seems to have made a big difference - either that or the warmer weather.
I may try the velcro tomorrow. However, I'm wondering about the placement. I can also see that my roof is rubbing in the rear corners. And in the front ones too. But I'm thinking that if it is getting too close in those places, rather than sticking velco there, which results in even even more pressure in those places (though less contact between hard parts), it might be better to put the velcro in neighboring places. It's like when you get too much rubbing in your shoes. When I was younger and did a lot of hiking, if you started to get a blister, you cut some moleskin and used it to protect the spot. But you didn't cover the spot. Rather, you cut a hole in the moleskin and put the hole over the spot. The ring around the sore spot prevented the boots from putting any pressure on it.
In case of the rear corner of the roof opening where our cars seem to rub most, one could put some velcro on both the side metal surface and the rear metal surface, and leave the corner alone. But I'm thinking that the roof going back and forth might cause the side velcro to rub off, so I might just try the back.
I'm also wondering if it isn't better to use black tape than velcro, as it's much thinner, and I would think the thinner the better. But I guess it's hard to find equally sticky tape ...
I may try the velcro tomorrow. However, I'm wondering about the placement. I can also see that my roof is rubbing in the rear corners. And in the front ones too. But I'm thinking that if it is getting too close in those places, rather than sticking velco there, which results in even even more pressure in those places (though less contact between hard parts), it might be better to put the velcro in neighboring places. It's like when you get too much rubbing in your shoes. When I was younger and did a lot of hiking, if you started to get a blister, you cut some moleskin and used it to protect the spot. But you didn't cover the spot. Rather, you cut a hole in the moleskin and put the hole over the spot. The ring around the sore spot prevented the boots from putting any pressure on it.
In case of the rear corner of the roof opening where our cars seem to rub most, one could put some velcro on both the side metal surface and the rear metal surface, and leave the corner alone. But I'm thinking that the roof going back and forth might cause the side velcro to rub off, so I might just try the back.
I'm also wondering if it isn't better to use black tape than velcro, as it's much thinner, and I would think the thinner the better. But I guess it's hard to find equally sticky tape ...
04-02-2016, 11:11 PM
#19
Regarding the front deflector, when the roof is open, if I move it around with my hand, I can make a lot of noise that reminds me of what I'm hearing when the roof is closed. But when the roof is almost closed, the deflector is wedged in there so tightly that I can't move it with my hand at all, and I guess it doesn't get looser when the roof is fully closed. Also, the McLube and 303 treatment seem to address that sound - at least temporarily. So I'm not yet sure about velcroing the front. In addition, I don't think the closed deflector will contact the points shown in bezza 911's photos (excluding the first) except at the end of these pieces towards the front of the car, and I don't think contact there is likely to make anything like a rattling noise.
On the other hand, maybe when the car hits some really big bumps that bounce it about and/or twist the chassis, the deflector could noisily hit something. Velco as in bezza 911's photos (at least at the forward ends) might keep it from moving and hitting something else. And some 997 Targa owners have reported great success with velcro to stop the deflector from making noise, though positioned differently (in a way I still don't fully understand). Anyway, I plan to try something in/near the rear corners tomorrow. I may try something in front later.
On the other hand, maybe when the car hits some really big bumps that bounce it about and/or twist the chassis, the deflector could noisily hit something. Velco as in bezza 911's photos (at least at the forward ends) might keep it from moving and hitting something else. And some 997 Targa owners have reported great success with velcro to stop the deflector from making noise, though positioned differently (in a way I still don't fully understand). Anyway, I plan to try something in/near the rear corners tomorrow. I may try something in front later.
04-06-2016, 06:26 PM
#20
After spending some more time with my roof, it may be helpful to share my experience.
First, the McLube & 303 aerospace protectant got rid of most of the clanking and squeaking. What was left was a buzzing vibration set off by rough roads.
Then I put tape in the back corners. Four layers of a marking-tape thick tape. Did nothing.
So I replaced it with Velcro, just a bit longer than the corners, as in Michael Gibney's photos (in the other thread). I didn't cover the sides any further than the worn area, but I did go a bit further on the back. Didn't help. Maybe made things worse.
Then I put the velcro in the front corners, again, using strips a bit longer than the worn area, but not going past the worn area on the sides. Helped a lot. The buzzing is still there sometimes, but much softer, and less often. Mind you, I tested it on some below average local roads, and even the average ones suck. By the way, Michael in his original post just mentioning covering the back corners, but I later realized that is his photos (posted later), it's the front corners that are shown (velcroed).
I'm a bit concerned that the velcro might pad out, and it might start vibrating more. Not sure thicker velcro is available. What I could do however is use a slightly longer strip. That way more velcro would be bearing the pressure, so it would pad out less. Furthermore, it would apply more pressure and friction and hold the roof even better. I could also put a layer or two of tape under it. I might also try having more of the velcro on the sides. Right now there's almost none, so it could add a lot of side grip. The downside is a risk of more rubbing when opening and closing the roof, and therefore of the velcro coming loose, getting trapped in the roof mechanism. Also, in the corners, the velcro is almost invisible unless you look for it. But the further from the corners you go, the more visible it would be.
One final note, where there is wear in the corners, you can see that the outer layer of this hard frame which runs around the roof is not metal. And it's not the paint that covers the metal. It's a thin plastic film which covers the paint. (It's what I imagine a protective car wrap is like, though I have no first hand experience with such films.) Given that, might there be a more appropriate product that McLube to use here?
First, the McLube & 303 aerospace protectant got rid of most of the clanking and squeaking. What was left was a buzzing vibration set off by rough roads.
Then I put tape in the back corners. Four layers of a marking-tape thick tape. Did nothing.
So I replaced it with Velcro, just a bit longer than the corners, as in Michael Gibney's photos (in the other thread). I didn't cover the sides any further than the worn area, but I did go a bit further on the back. Didn't help. Maybe made things worse.
Then I put the velcro in the front corners, again, using strips a bit longer than the worn area, but not going past the worn area on the sides. Helped a lot. The buzzing is still there sometimes, but much softer, and less often. Mind you, I tested it on some below average local roads, and even the average ones suck. By the way, Michael in his original post just mentioning covering the back corners, but I later realized that is his photos (posted later), it's the front corners that are shown (velcroed).
I'm a bit concerned that the velcro might pad out, and it might start vibrating more. Not sure thicker velcro is available. What I could do however is use a slightly longer strip. That way more velcro would be bearing the pressure, so it would pad out less. Furthermore, it would apply more pressure and friction and hold the roof even better. I could also put a layer or two of tape under it. I might also try having more of the velcro on the sides. Right now there's almost none, so it could add a lot of side grip. The downside is a risk of more rubbing when opening and closing the roof, and therefore of the velcro coming loose, getting trapped in the roof mechanism. Also, in the corners, the velcro is almost invisible unless you look for it. But the further from the corners you go, the more visible it would be.
One final note, where there is wear in the corners, you can see that the outer layer of this hard frame which runs around the roof is not metal. And it's not the paint that covers the metal. It's a thin plastic film which covers the paint. (It's what I imagine a protective car wrap is like, though I have no first hand experience with such films.) Given that, might there be a more appropriate product that McLube to use here?
Last edited by rs10; 05-27-2016 at 11:14 PM.
05-20-2016, 05:24 PM
#21
Correction: I wrote in the previous post that I used 3m velcro (until I deleted that sentence). Well, I thought the place I bought it from used 3m velcro (they sold me a strip, not a whole package), but now I'm not sure.
05-20-2016, 05:32 PM
#22
And something new: The things mentioned in this thread help, but it may be helpful to mention that there is a role for a dealership or good specialist (or a mechanically inclined owner) as well. Recently I started driving, and the roof was much noisier than the day before, seemingly right behind my head. I happened to be on the way to the Porsche dealer, so I asked them what they could do. I didn't fully understand the explanation, but they mentioned that the roof can be removed, and that related to this, there is something which was loose which they tightened quite firmly. And it was much better.
Alas, it didn't take long before it started getting worse again - though nowhere near as bad as it was. Maybe with a bit of loctite ... .
Alas, it didn't take long before it started getting worse again - though nowhere near as bad as it was. Maybe with a bit of loctite ... .
05-27-2016, 11:10 PM
#23
And something else. I went back to the Porsche dealer today. As I mentioned above, tightening the roof really helped, but I did notice some noises creeping back. It didn't really get much worse after I wrote the last post, but I wanted to see if they could still do something.
They could. Not tightening things more. But applying what they described as lubricant. Special lubricant. It comes in a tiny little bottle that, save for the Porsche branding, looks like something you can only get at a pharmacy, with a prescription. And it has a price to match: around $100. It's just for sunroofs - perhaps just for Targa roofs. And it works. Really well, so far.
It's not exactly (just) a lubricant, though. Not a replacement for the often recommended McLube oil or spray. Rather, for 303 Aerospace. It's job is to deal with dried out weather stripping and the like. You put a drop on your fingertip and rub it into anything rubbery.
I also learned more about what they tightened. Mainly (only?) screws. As far as I can tell, the way to do this, or at least most of it, is to open the roof and tighten any screws you find. I haven't had time to see where they are, but I assume there must be a few somewhere.
So what to do if your roof squeaks and rattles? Based on a lot of 996 and 997 threads and personal learnings, I recall five main things:
1. The McLube treatment
2. The 303 treatment - for which I'd substitute let's call it "Porsche Targa lube"
3. Use something like velcro or weatherstripping to hold the air deflector tight when the roof is closed
4. Stop the corners of the glass roof from rubbing with the corners of the roof frame, for instance by putting velcro in the corners. In retrospect, I'm not sure I'd do this until I tried the rest. If there's too much pressure in these corners, putting velcro there and increasing the pressure further may be the best practical solution, but it doesn't seem ideal.
5. Tighten the roof
If in the future I'm again dissatisfied, I might look into replacing some/all of the rubbery trim around the roof, starting with the two round circles in the front of the roof opening.
They could. Not tightening things more. But applying what they described as lubricant. Special lubricant. It comes in a tiny little bottle that, save for the Porsche branding, looks like something you can only get at a pharmacy, with a prescription. And it has a price to match: around $100. It's just for sunroofs - perhaps just for Targa roofs. And it works. Really well, so far.
It's not exactly (just) a lubricant, though. Not a replacement for the often recommended McLube oil or spray. Rather, for 303 Aerospace. It's job is to deal with dried out weather stripping and the like. You put a drop on your fingertip and rub it into anything rubbery.
I also learned more about what they tightened. Mainly (only?) screws. As far as I can tell, the way to do this, or at least most of it, is to open the roof and tighten any screws you find. I haven't had time to see where they are, but I assume there must be a few somewhere.
So what to do if your roof squeaks and rattles? Based on a lot of 996 and 997 threads and personal learnings, I recall five main things:
1. The McLube treatment
2. The 303 treatment - for which I'd substitute let's call it "Porsche Targa lube"
3. Use something like velcro or weatherstripping to hold the air deflector tight when the roof is closed
4. Stop the corners of the glass roof from rubbing with the corners of the roof frame, for instance by putting velcro in the corners. In retrospect, I'm not sure I'd do this until I tried the rest. If there's too much pressure in these corners, putting velcro there and increasing the pressure further may be the best practical solution, but it doesn't seem ideal.
5. Tighten the roof
If in the future I'm again dissatisfied, I might look into replacing some/all of the rubbery trim around the roof, starting with the two round circles in the front of the roof opening.
