Is this true about the 99 YO?
12-29-2009, 02:02 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Back to an original question you asked. The MkII cars (with 3.6 litre motors) are more desirable not so much because of reliability, which is debatable, but more because they perform better.
The 3.6 has more horsepower, 320 instead of 296.
The 3.6 is much snappier owing to variocam plus which lifts the valves higher at 3000 rpm in addition to changing the valve angle (which the 3.4 does as well).
The MkII chassis is stiffer - by as much as 25% according to Porsche.
The MkII cars had revised headlights, which most agree are better looking although I don't necessarily think so.
The MkII has revised bumpers which increase cooling significantly according to Porsche.
MkII interiors are improved, with a glove box and cup holders.
I personally wanted a MkI car for my second 996 because I could have saved a few $ and because I prefer the headlights, but ultimately I paid a few (just a few) extra $ for a MkII car because they are the better machine.
The 3.6 has more horsepower, 320 instead of 296.
The 3.6 is much snappier owing to variocam plus which lifts the valves higher at 3000 rpm in addition to changing the valve angle (which the 3.4 does as well).
The MkII chassis is stiffer - by as much as 25% according to Porsche.
The MkII cars had revised headlights, which most agree are better looking although I don't necessarily think so.
The MkII has revised bumpers which increase cooling significantly according to Porsche.
MkII interiors are improved, with a glove box and cup holders.
I personally wanted a MkI car for my second 996 because I could have saved a few $ and because I prefer the headlights, but ultimately I paid a few (just a few) extra $ for a MkII car because they are the better machine.
12-29-2009, 02:50 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I think that with a car that age the IMS is the least of your potential problems.
Get a PPI. Better yet, spend another $4-5k on top of what he's asking to get something in better shape. That car is clean but was clearly someone's daily driver (not necessarily a bad thing if wear items were replaced and those "full maintenance" jobs at the dealer were just that). From the looks of the brakes alone I wouldn't be surprised if another $2-3k in maintenance awaits you to get the car where it should be. Encountering any of the issues typical to a car with this age and mileage will make you wish you spent the repair bill on a better example.
If your budget precludes you from buying any more car than this (and ESPECIALLY if you're financing it) then I'd start looking at used Boxsters. for $12k you can find a Boxster that's likely in better condition than this car, and for $16k you could get yourself a nice S with 1/2-2/3 the mileage this car has. I know--a Boxster isn't a 911--but it's a hell of a lot of car for the money and a good "stepping stone."
Mark
Get a PPI. Better yet, spend another $4-5k on top of what he's asking to get something in better shape. That car is clean but was clearly someone's daily driver (not necessarily a bad thing if wear items were replaced and those "full maintenance" jobs at the dealer were just that). From the looks of the brakes alone I wouldn't be surprised if another $2-3k in maintenance awaits you to get the car where it should be. Encountering any of the issues typical to a car with this age and mileage will make you wish you spent the repair bill on a better example.
If your budget precludes you from buying any more car than this (and ESPECIALLY if you're financing it) then I'd start looking at used Boxsters. for $12k you can find a Boxster that's likely in better condition than this car, and for $16k you could get yourself a nice S with 1/2-2/3 the mileage this car has. I know--a Boxster isn't a 911--but it's a hell of a lot of car for the money and a good "stepping stone."
Mark
12-29-2009, 03:50 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think that with a car that age the IMS is the least of your potential problems.
Get a PPI. Better yet, spend another $4-5k on top of what he's asking to get something in better shape. That car is clean but was clearly someone's daily driver (not necessarily a bad thing if wear items were replaced and those "full maintenance" jobs at the dealer were just that). From the looks of the brakes alone I wouldn't be surprised if another $2-3k in maintenance awaits you to get the car where it should be. Encountering any of the issues typical to a car with this age and mileage will make you wish you spent the repair bill on a better example.
If your budget precludes you from buying any more car than this (and ESPECIALLY if you're financing it) then I'd start looking at used Boxsters. for $12k you can find a Boxster that's likely in better condition than this car, and for $16k you could get yourself a nice S with 1/2-2/3 the mileage this car has. I know--a Boxster isn't a 911--but it's a hell of a lot of car for the money and a good "stepping stone."
Mark
Get a PPI. Better yet, spend another $4-5k on top of what he's asking to get something in better shape. That car is clean but was clearly someone's daily driver (not necessarily a bad thing if wear items were replaced and those "full maintenance" jobs at the dealer were just that). From the looks of the brakes alone I wouldn't be surprised if another $2-3k in maintenance awaits you to get the car where it should be. Encountering any of the issues typical to a car with this age and mileage will make you wish you spent the repair bill on a better example.
If your budget precludes you from buying any more car than this (and ESPECIALLY if you're financing it) then I'd start looking at used Boxsters. for $12k you can find a Boxster that's likely in better condition than this car, and for $16k you could get yourself a nice S with 1/2-2/3 the mileage this car has. I know--a Boxster isn't a 911--but it's a hell of a lot of car for the money and a good "stepping stone."
Mark
12-29-2009, 04:28 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
This doesn't invalidate my point that a 996 in this price range is going to be a gamble in terms of reliability and after-sale cost. If you have the means, I'd suggest looking for newer cars with less mileage, because you'll find more options than the handful of 996 cars priced as low as this one. If you don't have the means to stretch further and don't mind a few repairs, go for it--I do like the Meridian color.
One last thought--if an insurance company was paying to install a reman engine in this 996, it would effectively total the car.
Good hunting,
Mark
Last edited by number9ine; 12-29-2009 at 04:44 PM.
12-29-2009, 05:04 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I agree the 928 is a hell of a machine, but both the Boxster and 996 are formidable in their own right (and 20+ years ahead in the design curve). The point I wanted to make was: for the price of your example car, you can buy a lot more Boxster than you can 996. If the car doesn't suit your taste that's fine (it suits mine, I used to own a 986. Forgive my personal preferences coming to light here.
This doesn't invalidate my point that a 996 in this price range is going to be a gamble in terms of reliability and after-sale cost. If you have the means, I'd suggest looking for newer cars with less mileage, because you'll find more options than the handful of 996 cars priced as low as this one. If you don't have the means to stretch further and don't mind a few repairs, go for it--I do like the Meridian color.
One last thought--if an insurance company was paying to install a reman engine in this 996, it would effectively total the car.
Good hunting,
Mark
This doesn't invalidate my point that a 996 in this price range is going to be a gamble in terms of reliability and after-sale cost. If you have the means, I'd suggest looking for newer cars with less mileage, because you'll find more options than the handful of 996 cars priced as low as this one. If you don't have the means to stretch further and don't mind a few repairs, go for it--I do like the Meridian color.
One last thought--if an insurance company was paying to install a reman engine in this 996, it would effectively total the car.
Good hunting,
Mark
Thanks for playing along, Wasnt sure how you were going to take that post. Boxter is just not my taste. I do 99% of my own work. I am not afraid of a fix. But a whole engine replacment would be hard to take. I would put the 928 up against an NA boxter or 996 anyday. I am pretty sure it would hold its own well. Its just in the last few years that other performace cars have passed the perfromance of the 928
12-29-2009, 05:07 PM
#21
And 986 ≠ 996, even with "more" 986 for the money
-td
12-29-2009, 05:09 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
12-29-2009, 05:53 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Well, what has not been said yet, is that you can "repair" all of those possible issues with an older 996 for about $5,000 and not worry about them anymore. At the price you are potentially paying you can be money and sleep ahead by having a quality shop remove the engine, replace the RMS with the latest update, IMS bearing with the latest update, the AOS with the latest separator, get a new clutch, pressure plate, and T/O bearing, get a new serpentine belt, oil change, filters all around, and maybe even get a knick or a knack thrown in like a new coolant fill tank.
What happens is that folks wait until it fails before acting. Then it is too late for the engine, if it is the IMS bearing. All the other "issues" can be detected before they cause an expensive engine failure.
The IMS bearing seems to have a numerically high failure rate if you only use the data on this forum. And that may be so. But that numerically high percentage may be less than 10%.
IF you buy the car and then do a major service and they bless everything, then all you need to do is decided for yourself when to have the "preventative" maintenance done. The PPI is worth the money to you. It will let you know what your immediate potential is for problems. The other items just become "normal maintenance."
The real issue with a 996 with over 100,000 miles is if you have good compression, good leak down, and good lifters. Those are INTERNAL engine items that would be expensive. Everything else that is raged upon on this forum is on the OUTSIDE of the engine. Since the IMS bearing can be replaced without cracking the engine block or heads, then it is still an external item, by definition. Pistons, rings, valves, crankshafts are not.
What happens is that folks wait until it fails before acting. Then it is too late for the engine, if it is the IMS bearing. All the other "issues" can be detected before they cause an expensive engine failure.
The IMS bearing seems to have a numerically high failure rate if you only use the data on this forum. And that may be so. But that numerically high percentage may be less than 10%.
IF you buy the car and then do a major service and they bless everything, then all you need to do is decided for yourself when to have the "preventative" maintenance done. The PPI is worth the money to you. It will let you know what your immediate potential is for problems. The other items just become "normal maintenance."
The real issue with a 996 with over 100,000 miles is if you have good compression, good leak down, and good lifters. Those are INTERNAL engine items that would be expensive. Everything else that is raged upon on this forum is on the OUTSIDE of the engine. Since the IMS bearing can be replaced without cracking the engine block or heads, then it is still an external item, by definition. Pistons, rings, valves, crankshafts are not.
12-29-2009, 06:06 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thanks for playing along, Wasnt sure how you were going to take that post. Boxter is just not my taste. I do 99% of my own work. I am not afraid of a fix. But a whole engine replacment would be hard to take. I would put the 928 up against an NA boxter or 996 anyday. I am pretty sure it would hold its own well. Its just in the last few years that other performace cars have passed the perfromance of the 928
And I totally agree, it's taken a long time for mainstream sports cars to match what the 928 offers. There are people here with 200+k on their 996 engines, so I wouldn't count out the motor with a good service history like this one has. A little more money might go a long way toward alleviating worries about this.
Agreed on all fronts. Ignoring everything but the badge they have in common, all P-cars bring a grin to my face. 986 is not a 996, but the Boxster has its own charms that aren't part of the 911 formula. Not for everyone, sure, but I miss mine whenever I take my wife's car for a spin.
12-29-2009, 06:15 PM
#25
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[QUOTE=number9ine;7179775]I think that with a car that age the IMS is the least of your potential problems.Mark
/QUOTE]
I couldn't disagree with you more...
/QUOTE]
I couldn't disagree with you more...
12-29-2009, 06:31 PM
#26
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Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Fact is, for under $20k, you get a great car, that's thoroughly modern, and has great performance and is a joy to drive. I think the car you're looking at is a good deal at $17k or thereabouts. The color combo doesn't appeal to me personally, but the car appears to be solid. Also, as a personal opinion, I think you might need an AOS, a window regulator, water pump or microswitch, expansion tank or the like somewhere, but likely that'll be the extent of things the car'd require. Unlike what most vocal people here say, I'm of the opinion that 996s are pretty solid cars overall. I'd prefer an MK2 example, but the price delta is hard to justify at ~$8k+, which is why I'm on my second 99 C2...
12-29-2009, 06:41 PM
#27
Race Director
Fact is, for under $20k, you get a great car, that's thoroughly modern, and has great performance and is a joy to drive. I think the car you're looking at is a good deal at $17k or thereabouts. The color combo doesn't appeal to me personally, but the car appears to be solid. Also, as a personal opinion, I think you might need an AOS, a window regulator, water pump or microswitch, expansion tank or the like somewhere, but likely that'll be the extent of things the car'd require. Unlike what most vocal people here say, I'm of the opinion that 996s are pretty solid cars overall. I'd prefer an MK2 example, but the price delta is hard to justify at ~$8k+, which is why I'm on my second 99 C2...
12-29-2009, 09:23 PM
#28
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Recently rewatched Scarface....the movie reminded me what I dislike about the the 928....the movie was great but its all about the guys who are the "want to bes"...the gold chain guys. Buy what you can afford not what you can get on the cheap to impress the neighbor or your co-workers at Erie Insurance. "Himself" has the quote wrong...." As the old saying goes: a cheap Porsche (996) will be the most expensive car you ever own"...."Buying one cheap" Porsche (or BMW or MB or Ferrari) is the most expensive car you will over own". High milage.....multiple owners...etc...is the problem. The 996 is not a cheap Porsche....it is very well built and is the most reliable car I have ever owned.
12-29-2009, 11:38 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Guys, thank you for the comments and insight. At this point I have chosen to send the gent a depo on the car. I am having a local dealer look at the car for a PPI.
It is my conclusion here and on other boards the ISF is something of concern. But the only way to actually fully prevent it is to do a regular scheduled replacement on the bearing. It is also hard to detect that it is even comoing other than what some have called a "death roll" of noise that you have to be listening for. I think 17 for the car is a fare price if the car is as stated. Tomorrow I will move forward.
It is my conclusion here and on other boards the ISF is something of concern. But the only way to actually fully prevent it is to do a regular scheduled replacement on the bearing. It is also hard to detect that it is even comoing other than what some have called a "death roll" of noise that you have to be listening for. I think 17 for the car is a fare price if the car is as stated. Tomorrow I will move forward.
12-30-2009, 01:03 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Life is a gamble. If you like the car go for it. I too wait for the death rattle. Have thought seriously about selling it and buying a 2002 M5 as a replacement as its performance is comparable and fun to drive. In the end i'm a Porsche guy and nothing is as fun to drive with that flickable feel that a 911 has. If and when my engine detonates, i'll post up and you all can console/cajole me. Until then its foot to the floor madness and turn in deliciousness for me.