ttreat

Hi all, I have been trolling here for a few months to learn as much as I can about the 964s and 996s. I am looking to purchase my first Porsche. I have pretty much decided that on a 996. It has to be a 6 spd coupe and I would much prefer the C2. I prefer a more basic car because I want it for its performance for some Autoxs and track days along with some DD in the summer. I was hoping to spend about $20K on such a car with about 60-70,000 miles that has had the RMS and clutch replaced.

Now the questions. Does there tend to be a lull in the market in the winter months? It seems that there are fewer cars advertised now. Do the prices hold or rise come springtime? And finally, I know the differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 996s but are there any advantages to buying an '00 or '01 model over a '99?

Barn996

Winter normally would mean softer pricing for Porsches, but the 996 pricing has continued to slide due to its production numbers compared to other Porsches.I like my 99 C2 coupe very much, but I haven't driven anything newer. I was checking Fleabay and Autotraded last night and found numerous water cooled examples for cheap $...high teens low 20's. More power, more weight, and a glove box(Ithink) come with the newer MK2 996s. GL

ivangene

I see some advantages to buying a 99' over the newer cars.

cable thottle (not electronic)
slighly fewer standard options like glove box and such
interiors have more accent pieces in other colors (graphite in my case)
If one makes it to the 70k mark, it might go another 70k if taken care of

Its winter.....so I would say all car sales are slow, BUT good cars will not likely drop in price. There is always a bunch of junk on the bottom to pick up.... wait for a good one

Macster

Generally the used car market cools off (no pun...) in winter. There are still cars for sale, coming into the market, but buyers are scarce. School is in session so for families there is the school runs to schedule car shopping around, thoughts turn to the holidays and getting through the winter.

One might expect a car being sold in the winter to be offered by a motivated seller and that is always a good thing for the buyer, maybe not so good for the seller.

But otoh waiting until spring or summer means the car's older and has lost even more money to depreciation so a sale in the winter while it might result in the car being sold for a bit less than "market" could see the car sold for more than it might bring 6 months later.

Newer is always better.

But an earlier example if in good shape and with some carefull consideration could be a good buy as well. Generally used car buyers are more concerned with price and condition and less with other things, so an older example but in good condition could be a very good, a very smart buy.

You just have to be sure you're getting a car in good condition.

My preference is to buy not the 1st year's new model, but a year or two after the new model's introduction. For instance I bought an 03 Turbo. The 996 Turbo first appeared in 2000 and ended its run in 2005. Newer examples were more expensive of course but the 03 was low miles, came with (the new/improved) CPO warranty, and in excellent condition and of course not the 1st MY's example.

Were I in the market for a 996 C2 that 1st came out in (guessing) 2000 I would prefer to find at least an 01 or even an 02 example. The price differences with some savyy dealings would be slight -- I believe -- and yet the later example is a better car, all other things being equal.

But a good car is where and what you find and if you find a good '99 at a price you like, well, there you go.

Sincerely,

Macster.

10 GT3

99's are the cheapest, but have the greatest number of issues. Some say they are the lightest, but additional equipment that was optional was added as standard in 00 and 01. So, if it has a lot of options then don't expect it to be light. Going with an 02+ you get a bigger engine with more torque, more power, improved aerodynamics, a better suspension, a much stiffer chassis (that's where the extra 25 lbs are), a far better sound system (with the option Bose) and a better interior (dash gauges, glove box and cup holders). With these cars you usually get what you pay for, so if you buy cheap...

ttreat

Thanks for the advice so far. I am not really concerned about my depreciation as I don't intend to resell for a long time. I obviously would think that an '01 or '02 would cost more than a '99 due to age at this point. I am looking for differences that would be advantageous between Mk1 MYs. Especially examples like ivangene's. I am a mechanical engineer and like to get pretty hands on with my cars. Anything that would give me the ability to diagnose or repair would be considered an advantage IMHO.

I know most people are not looking to buy or sell a car right now but I am concerned about the drop in the number of 996s that I see showing up on the classifieds and auto listings. A lot of the ads seem to be from sellers that want way too much and just keep on advertising hoping that some one will cover their loss. I am looking for a motivated seller with a good car. I am willing to wait for the right car but I have the cash in hand ready for it.

lazydays77

I looked from Feb of this year till I found mine (2001 C4, 73k miles) in October in Boston. I don't know where you're located but I am in Chicago and found that the Midwest area holds a pretty firm bid. There just doesn't seem to be as much supply. I would suggest looking on the coasts and in the south. For what I paid for mine locally the closest I came was a 99 C4 with 115k miles. Just be careful when not dealing local.

kevjandon

The interiors changed in 2001.

The cable levers for the trunk and hood (which always get scratched) were replaced with toggle switches that are electronic.

I believe the seude headliner became standard in 2001 as well.

Interior trim bits were upgraded too. The 99 trim pieces seem to have multiple color variations on the plastic parts where on the 01's all the plastic is the same color. I've been in 99's and 01's. The interior in an 01 is much nicer IMO. To get a nice interior in a 99 you'll want one with full leather and the seude headliner.

Personally, I don't see much price difference between the 99's and 01's. So would go with an 01 if you can find it.

ttreat

I am located in Northeastern PA. Fortunately NY Metro area isn't very far but I will not be limiting my search. It seems that the greatest supply is in CA but I would have to factor shipping on any purchase that far away. I would be willing to drive back anything within 24-30 hrs driving time. Although my wife is in agreement with the purchase, she wouldn't be too happy with me leaving her with our two young ones and for a week while driving back from CA.

My previous toy was a 91 Toyota MR2 Turbo that I picked up in Tallahassee, FL. I flew down and then drove it back.

15psi

As Macster said - the most important thing you can do is get a car in good condition. And I will add that you do your due diligence in getting a PPI, talk to the seller, research info on the car. I have sold many cars on eBay and am totally surprised how many never contacted me before they bought the car. They bought it totally on a few "very nice" pics and a brief description. Never called or emailed me!

While Caxfax leaves a lot to be desired, it does sometimes have useful info. Plus you can see the frequency of purchases, and in some cases, some of the service. Also do a Google on the VIN, you will sometimes find interesting history info. Talk to the mechanic servicing the car (with a grain of salt), get records. I prefer to buy a car from a car enthusiast rather than a 'flipper' or someone who simply bought a Porsche because of the name. Better maintenance and usually better chance for records. And a car that has less owners is usually a good thing. (many of these cars seem to have a new owner every 2 years – I think this also contributes to the pricing situation since you have a lot of cars and many return to the market every 2 years. I’ve seen more than a handful that are sold on eBay and then are back on eBay from the new owner within 2 months.)

I watched the market for over a year and finally bought 2 months ago. Recently the selection of cars has diminished as it usually does this time of the year. You'd think you would get a better price but the pickings are slimmer. It seems the pricing has flattened with few cars selling. (less deals) Many people will pull car off market til spring hoping for a higher price.

While you are shopping, try out an many cars as you can. This will tell you if a '99 is any different to you vs a '00 or '01. (I found options, upgrades, upkeep, service and mileage to be a bigger differentiator rather than year made) Check the option codes under the hood. I found many sellers don’t know the full options on their car. My seller didn’t know that the car had 030 suspension, Limited slip and many other options. (I didn’t mention it til after the sale)

Bottom line- be flexible on price but not on condition and prior service. And research, research, research.

GL

15psi

I took my wife with me to do the final inspection of 5 cars in CA. (We were hoping to drive home) One 996 was clearly the winner and we then spent some time in CA vacationing. Drove home in 2 relaxing days, 1600 mi. She still talks about the great adventure. Fabulous trip.

You'd have more distance, and would have to take the southern route. 24-30 hrs might be a little optimistic.

ttreat

My wife would love to make the trip but it's really not possible now with a 3 yr old and a 2 month old.

Again, I am looking for more specific advice on Mk1 model years. I just want to know if I have reasons to limit my search for a '00 or '01. I agree that research is the key and know what I need to do to get a good car.

It's good to hear that the market should provide a few more choices in the months to come. I know a while back it seemed like there were a number of people selling because Porsche was offering a "great" deal on new ones. This led to a number of private owners with good cars selling to get a better price than the dealer trade in value. Does this only seem to come late in the model year or does Porsche tend to have "deals" in the late winter or spring also?

15psi

Based on the people I spoke with selling these 8-10 yr old cars, most people are selling their 996, because 'they lived the dream' and are ready to move on, need money, found the upkeep to be more expensive than they thought, or are having children (did I forget - want a GT3 or TT?). Not because of a new model year.

The winter months are typically slow for used sports cars.

Pac996

Good luck shopping. If it's a deal its a deal. Just don't get ripped.

The differences in options are no big deal since it's part of shopping. The glove box thing I don't think is much owning a 99. I'll just throw stuff in the back or in the two compartments both doors have 2 of. I just throw the tire gauge in the open door compartment so it's easy and here you go officer paperwork in the compartment with a lid. How big of a glove box can a porsche have anyway right. The automatic seat positioner is neat but not really needed but it does adjust the mirrors too.

Advise? Take your time till you are happy with your choice.

BruceP

If I was going to keep the car for a long time, as you say you are, then I might look at this a bit differently. I might look for a really well cared for, clean, early car and spend some of what you would lose in depreciation + the price premium for a newer car on upgrades. Knowing what I know now, I'd be very tempted to buy slightly older car and then get the various LN Engineering goodies, a new suspension, maybe some aero or seats, tires, battery and a set of winter wheels and tires. The result would be comparable in price to a car a couple of years newer, but be more 'yours' and there would be less risk that you'd end up spending the money anyway when something breaks.

The early cars are bargains, IMHO. And it's not because of production numbers, as some believe. 996 production was higher than the 993 or the last true 911, the 964, yes, but it was a long, long way from mass produced. 996 used prices are comparable to those of Honda and Toyota sedans that were produced in quantities a hundred times higher. No, 996s prices are low because 996 owners talked them down. Which is great for you.