996 on track - watch that oil pressure!
01-03-2010, 07:29 PM
#31
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iirc in addition to the deep oil pan, you should have the motorsports oiling kit (pump and other stuff ) installed to remedy the oil starvation problem.
01-03-2010, 08:40 PM
#32
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From an oil control perspective the 3.4 and 3.6 have identical oil baffles in their pans. Porsche superseded the 3.4 part later to a 996 3.6 and then later to a 997 3.6 part #.
FWIW: I personally saw the same issue on my 3.4 another 3.4 and my new 3.6.
The x51 pan does help to control oil better than the stock one and is a good investment but the root cause of the pressure drop is related to there only being 2 scavenge pumps and their inability to return oil to the sump during high G situations.
This day in age and based on what we can/cannot get. If you want some additional insurance: Accusump
FWIW: I personally saw the same issue on my 3.4 another 3.4 and my new 3.6.
The x51 pan does help to control oil better than the stock one and is a good investment but the root cause of the pressure drop is related to there only being 2 scavenge pumps and their inability to return oil to the sump during high G situations.
This day in age and based on what we can/cannot get. If you want some additional insurance: Accusump
01-03-2010, 08:49 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
From an oil control perspective the 3.4 and 3.6 have identical oil baffles in their pans. Porsche superseded the 3.4 part later to a 996 3.6 and then later to a 997 3.6 part #.
FWIW: I personally saw the same issue on my 3.4 another 3.4 and my new 3.6.
The x51 pan does help to control oil better than the stock one and is a good investment but the root cause of the pressure drop is related to there only being 2 scavenge pumps and their inability to return oil to the sump during high G situations.
This day in age and based on what we can/cannot get. If you want some additional insurance: Accusump
FWIW: I personally saw the same issue on my 3.4 another 3.4 and my new 3.6.
The x51 pan does help to control oil better than the stock one and is a good investment but the root cause of the pressure drop is related to there only being 2 scavenge pumps and their inability to return oil to the sump during high G situations.
This day in age and based on what we can/cannot get. If you want some additional insurance: Accusump
01-03-2010, 09:43 PM
#34
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Accusump is made by Canton Race products (google is your friend).
Purely a bolt on solution that restores oil pressure for the split second that it is lost.
The key to putting it on your car is the Spin On Filter Adapter made by Jake Raby (Flat6 Innovations). Buy that part and bolt a kit on from Canton. Easy insurance for less than 1K. Pretty much the de facto solution amongst the Spec Boxster and Spec 996. Been in use by non dry sump racers for a while.
QUOTE=c70Pete;7192513]so what is the deal with Accusump... is it easily installed? does the engine have to come out...[/QUOTE]
Purely a bolt on solution that restores oil pressure for the split second that it is lost.
The key to putting it on your car is the Spin On Filter Adapter made by Jake Raby (Flat6 Innovations). Buy that part and bolt a kit on from Canton. Easy insurance for less than 1K. Pretty much the de facto solution amongst the Spec Boxster and Spec 996. Been in use by non dry sump racers for a while.
QUOTE=c70Pete;7192513]so what is the deal with Accusump... is it easily installed? does the engine have to come out...[/QUOTE]
01-03-2010, 10:03 PM
#35
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I don't think any of the POC Spec 996 guys have an accusump installed at this point and they've all been OK for the past couple years.... hope the record stays that way!
01-03-2010, 10:20 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Where did you go testing Garrett, what direction, and how far did it fall? I'm going to BW on Sat Jan 16 th for a open test date and I'll film my pressure gauge. The track is running CCW like we ran in November.
Also, 3 bar as mentioned by Pete above is still 45lbs. of pressure....
Also, 3 bar as mentioned by Pete above is still 45lbs. of pressure....
3 bar is still enough oil pressure to prevent damage?
01-03-2010, 10:27 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Accusump is made by Canton Race products (google is your friend).
Purely a bolt on solution that restores oil pressure for the split second that it is lost.
The key to putting it on your car is the Spin On Filter Adapter made by Jake Raby (Flat6 Innovations). Buy that part and bolt a kit on from Canton. Easy insurance for less than 1K. Pretty much the de facto solution amongst the Spec Boxster and Spec 996. Been in use by non dry sump racers for a while.
Purely a bolt on solution that restores oil pressure for the split second that it is lost.
The key to putting it on your car is the Spin On Filter Adapter made by Jake Raby (Flat6 Innovations). Buy that part and bolt a kit on from Canton. Easy insurance for less than 1K. Pretty much the de facto solution amongst the Spec Boxster and Spec 996. Been in use by non dry sump racers for a while.
how low did you see your pressure go in your 3.4 and 3.6 engines during hard cornering... did you ever go below 3 bar...?
01-03-2010, 11:17 PM
#38
I can't see the video but any chance you are sucking air from some place else than the pick up? Could be your pump pushes enough to keep the pessure up but when backing off its much more evident due to the higher volume of air sucked in during higher revs.
Some day I have to learn all the particulars like how the crank case breaths and such. So many simple things that can all add up. I'm already starting to figure there is no spring loaded ball bearing to maintain pressure in the system.
Some day I have to learn all the particulars like how the crank case breaths and such. So many simple things that can all add up. I'm already starting to figure there is no spring loaded ball bearing to maintain pressure in the system.
01-04-2010, 10:49 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
that's great news... so the x51 pan on my new motor is doing something... my older 3.4 engine with many many miles on it that DIDN"T have x51 pan saw drops to 1.5 and 2 psi in super hard cornering not good... RIP.
01-04-2010, 03:12 PM
#41
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I watched my pressure gauge while going thru the 18 degree banking at Cal Speedway at WOT in 6th gear and it hardly budged, certainly not below 4 bar but that's a left hander. The turn Garrett was going thru when his pressure jumped around is a right hander. I do have the X51 pan.....
01-04-2010, 03:23 PM
#42
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Pete, I'm sure you mean 1.5 to 2 bar?
I've seen it drop to 1.5-2 bar in my own C2 with a reman'd motor, as well as 3 others, including my current C2 (3.4). I've also observed one car have no perceptible pressure difference w/an X51 installed, and no other modifications.
I've seen it drop to 1.5-2 bar in my own C2 with a reman'd motor, as well as 3 others, including my current C2 (3.4). I've also observed one car have no perceptible pressure difference w/an X51 installed, and no other modifications.
01-04-2010, 03:38 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
I have x51 pan and use mobil 1 5W50 and in violent cornering... both right and left hand sweeper I have not seen below 3 bar... normal is above 4 bar...
1.5 - 2 bar your in trouble or you are low on oil OR... your engine temps are so hot that it has reduced your oil pressure because of high temperature... that's another thing the 996 needs is more cooling..... either through the 3rd rad or an external oil cooler..
... is it possible to mount an external oil cooler to the 996 engine to augment the one that is already there?
01-04-2010, 04:36 PM
#44
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My experiences and opinions:
I am not convinced that it's a temperature issue, and I am not convinced that there's a problem either. There are tons of these cars running around, and it appears that dropping oil pressure is the norm not the exception. The data I have seen are from my own car(s) as well as instructing several students with C2s. I've certainly seen them below 2.5 bar on the gauge, in fact, other than a full X51 package car (not just pan), or the GT3/GT2/Turbo, I haven't been in a single C2 that doesn't drop to at least that level under sustained cornering.
I am not convinced that it's a temperature issue, and I am not convinced that there's a problem either. There are tons of these cars running around, and it appears that dropping oil pressure is the norm not the exception. The data I have seen are from my own car(s) as well as instructing several students with C2s. I've certainly seen them below 2.5 bar on the gauge, in fact, other than a full X51 package car (not just pan), or the GT3/GT2/Turbo, I haven't been in a single C2 that doesn't drop to at least that level under sustained cornering.
01-04-2010, 05:42 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
My experiences and opinions:
I am not convinced that it's a temperature issue, and I am not convinced that there's a problem either. There are tons of these cars running around, and it appears that dropping oil pressure is the norm not the exception. The data I have seen are from my own car(s) as well as instructing several students with C2s. I've certainly seen them below 2.5 bar on the gauge, in fact, other than a full X51 package car (not just pan), or the GT3/GT2/Turbo, I haven't been in a single C2 that doesn't drop to at least that level under sustained cornering.
I am not convinced that it's a temperature issue, and I am not convinced that there's a problem either. There are tons of these cars running around, and it appears that dropping oil pressure is the norm not the exception. The data I have seen are from my own car(s) as well as instructing several students with C2s. I've certainly seen them below 2.5 bar on the gauge, in fact, other than a full X51 package car (not just pan), or the GT3/GT2/Turbo, I haven't been in a single C2 that doesn't drop to at least that level under sustained cornering.
1. did the cars you observed <2.5 bar have x51 pan installed?
2. how hot were the engine temps when you made your observation?
3. did you check to see that these cars had full oil right to the top? 7 missing bars indicate 0.7 litres of oil are needed... and some people run with 6 bars... which means your down on oil... not good for the track...
reason I ask is because on the corners that make my pressure drop to 3 bar ... 3 bar is only reached when my needle moves past the 0 in 180... slightly past... so I'm running say 104-108 C (as observed on the AC display)
when my needle is pointing strait upward and my temps are normal... normal is 90-95 C I don't see 3 bar in these corners!!... so my conclusion from my observations is that
a) with a full oil compartment... filled right to the top... with no *empty bars* on the oil readout
b) normal temps 90-95 C
there is little pressure drop for the first 3 laps... when things start getting warm the oil gets thinner and I see 3 bar...