SH || NC

We're splitting hairs, but there wasn't a MKII C4, so C4S is 'more' than the C4.

himself

I suppose my point was too subtle. The C4S [also called the "turbo look" or "un-turbo"] clearly has upgrades over the 996 C2/C4, but the "S" has nothing to do with the engine. Many misapplly the "S" (more power for a 997) to the 996, which is NOT the case. And, looks (body kit, wide body, etc) are personal taste anyway. On the numbers, PERFORMANCE of the 996 C4S is not on par with the 997 - and clearly not comparable to the 997S by ANY stretch of the imagination. You can dress a pig in a tuxedo...

"Essentially a Turbo without the Turbo" isn't necessarily a great thing. Put another way, you could say the C4S has all the weight gain of a 996 Turbo without any increase in power.

IIRC, the only thing the C4 and C4S share is the drive train. The C4 was not a widebody car. In fact, the C4 more closerly resembles the C2, other than AWD. The C4S has the Turbo stuff noted above, including the wide back side, but all versions have the exact same engine.

-td

SH || NC

We're arriving at the same place, just saying it differently except that you're mighty full of yourself now that you have a GT3.

Dennis C

Sorry, but the word "pig" as it applies to Porsches is reserved for the folks over on the Cayenne forum...

himself

I'm not sure if that is in jest or a jab I'm simply trying to give some counter perspective on the C4S, since many have been all thumbs up for it. I wouldn't say those folks are "full of themselves" since they tout how great the C4S (despite the fact they may own one).

Besides, I was full of myself before I got the GT3. The only difference is my lap times

-td [Kumain ka na?]

RallyJon

Well, there has to be something about the 996 C4S that attracts people.

I don't know about the other owners, but the C4S was the only 996 I considered (other than the turbo, and when I determined that the C4S had adequate power, it was an easy decision).

FWIW, there were quite a few reviews way back in 2001-02 when it was first introduced that do a good job of summarizing the "special-ness". Among other things, the big deal being that it had the upgraded chassis with ~200 lb less weight than the turbo, yet still maintained much of the handling feel of the lighter 2WD cars. The C4S was also faster around the 'ring than any normal 996.

Certainly Porsche has moved on, and once you're out of the air-cooled cars, newer is almost always better. But the 996 C4S stands out as one of the good ones, as a whole that somehow strikes a special balance, and is very appealing for it.

Jim Griffin

The "Pros" for the 996 C4S: 1. The wide rear body( Big 11 inch rims)2. The "Turbo" front bumper, 3. The "Big Red" Brakes. 4. The upgraded interior with supple leather interior 5. The rear side panel grid vents. 6. Some have the dual exhaust tips. The only base 997 with wide body is the 997S model. Pros of the 997S 1. More horsepower, 2. 997 engine with improved RMS, 3. Seems that the 997S made in 2005 is more reliable that some later models (Consumer Reports)4. If Chrono Package, you get adjustable ride stiffness. 4. Updated interior ( if that is important, I like the think more modern is not necessarily better in a Porsche ie 993s) Cons of 997S 1. No turbo bumper, no rear side panel vents. Won't get a 997S for 40K with under 50K miles. The 997 base- No forseeable improvements except, more horsepower, but basic interior, and basic exterior (No wide body, Turbo Bumpers, Bid Red Brakes,. I have a 2004 C4S CAB Tip and just love it. all the options available except X51. Great Cruiser and fast when I need it.

htny

The 997S is not a widebody at all.

FYI The widebody 997s for street are:
997 C4
997 C4S
997 Turbo
997 GT3RS
997 GT2


The 996 C4 was a narrowbody built thru 2001, 02 forward in the US are all C4S

996 C4 chassis is somewhat different than the C2 chassis, heavier yes but stiffer as well

USA 996 GT3 is also on the stiffer C4 tub, but is a narrowbody

The C4S does not share the M64 derived M96-70 engine of the turbo, same as C2

996 C2 cars do fit 11 inch wheels

htny

On the Mature Topic of Magazine Racing:
While Porsche did claim an 8:12s 'ring time for the 996C4S, however I have never seen a published Nurburgring time for the 6C4S faster than a C2, not that anyone here should even remotely care. After all if you're buying a car based on a few seconds difference in its Nurburgring time, call me I'd like some of those crazy pills you've been taking. Unless you buy the turbo, because that's not as crazy as it sounds.

Horst von Saurma in a 996 C4 (3.4L) did it in 8:23
Horst von Saurma in a 996 C2 (3.4L) did it in 8:17
Horst von Saurma in a 996 C2 (3.6L) did it in 8:17 as well
Walter Röhrl in a 996 C2 (3.6L) did it in 8:14
just for giggles, Horst did it in 8:24 in a 1997 993 C2 CAB

Horst von Saurma in the 996 turbo, did it in 7:56
Horst von Saurma in the 997 turbo, 7:54 (I've seen a lot of unverified numbers in the 30s and 40s as well, consensus is 7:40 is plausible)
Horst von Saurma in the 996 GT2, 7:46

Walter Röhrl in the 996 GT3, 7:56

And the 997
Walter Röhrl in the Mk1 997 Carrera 2 S 3.8L, 7:59 (PASM)
Horst von Saurma in Mk1 7C2S 3.8L, 8:05
Horst von Saurma in PDK/PASM/DFI/PCCB/SportChrono+ Mk2 997C2S, 7:50
Walter Röhrl in the Mk1 997 C2 3.6, 8:15

Now the boxster, incidentally, had some major generational performance improvements, and a modern 987S is reportedly as fast as a Mk1 996 C4 around the ring and many other courses. Fifth gear did a nice comparo, of course it's an RS60 and a mk1 3.4L c2, but hey 10 years isn't that long right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woq6F...layer_embedded

987 times all driven by Horst
Fahrzeug sport auto Ausgabe 0-200-0 km/h Rundenzeit Nordschleife Durchschnitts- Geschwindigkeit Nordschleife Aerodynamische Balance vorn/hinten
Porsche Boxster (986) April 97 38,4 s 8:54 min 138,9 km/h -/-36 kg
Porsche Boxster S (986) Dezember 99 28,8 s 8:32 min 144,8 km/h -/-24 kg
Porsche Boxster (986) März 03 31,7 s 8:36 min 143,7 km/h -28/-36 kg
Porsche Boxster S (987) April 06 25,5 s 8:23 min 147,4 km/h -25/-20 kg
Porsche Cayman S November 06 24,7 s 8:25 min 146,9 km/h -30/-19 kg

In real life, 90% of us and 100% of 1st time 911 drivers would be faster in the C4S or turbo or 997 PASM cars, not to even mention tip or pdk. None of us will get anywhere near these times even if we can spend a lot of time on the ring, and i'm not talking about traffic. These two guys basically drive 911s around the nurburgring for a living, and have been doing it for as long as they can remember.

I personally think the 996 C4S made more sense and provided more value when turbos commanded a huge premium over them, such as when they were new, now I just don't know. The turbo is a lot more car in so many ways, and the incremental cost, at least in terms of acquisition, is kinda nominal these days. Prices will continue to drop, it's been pretty mild so far coming into winter but check these prices again in february.

However the OP said C4S or 997, and I think if you plan on keeping the car for the rest of your life, get the one you want, because they are both so good it doesn't matter. Me, I'd get the 997 C4 or C4S, maybe next one a Cab, with asking prices so low

(here's a black 997 C2 CPO cab near me, I'm sure they'd take 40) http://tinyurl.com/ychhpok

russo

Don't take this the wrong way, but as an instructor, why would you prefer a C4 over a regular C2? The 2 gives you greater latitude in breaking the car loose and learning to drive it at the limits of your ability. Consequently, allowing further skill development in car control.

RallyJon

Whenever I read things like this, I wonder. Does anyone have any trouble breaking an AWD Porsche loose? Greater latitude???

If you happen to feel that your C4 or C4S is just un-unstickable, a quick trip to the alignment shop can easily cure that rare problem.

IrocMan

Went through the same question 18 months ago and picked the 996 C4S.
The 997 is a regular 911 of its time while the 4S is beautiful and will be a best value (price remains the same for my car since I bought it : $41.000 and in 5 to 10 years people will offer 45 to 50 to get one). Look at what happened to the 993 4S : up to twice the value of a regular 993.
I don't know if the new carrera S will have the same success : even if it's better it doesn't look so different than the 997 carrera.

so I would get a TT, or a 4S.

touque

as I just put on the 996 board, having a higher-mileage (like 50k) 997S might be an option if it has CPO, so then comparing to the C4S might be a difference than with a base 997. Keep the opinions coming - this is great

Edgy01

Keep telling yourself that. It's still a 996.

If you're so concerned about buying a Carrera for $40,000 or less, then the significantly higher maintenance costs of maintaining a 9964S over a 997S should be factored in.

pongobaz

What significantly higher maintenance costs are you talking about Dan? The 996 and 997 have very similar maintenance schedules with almost the exact same cost for the services and parts.