996 C2 a competitive track car?
08-30-2009, 03:14 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Dell
And trust me, nobody is getting their panties in a wad. Try seeing what would happen if you posted this over in the racing/DE forum. Now that would have been a roast.
Originally Posted by ace996
I just don't want to be disappointed like I was with the Lotus , and then need to take the M (which is phenomenal) back from my wife.
I'm able to find a good Spec996ish car that I can have fun with and then re-install the rear-seats and/or pull a rollbar/cage out when the weekend is over, then I'm all for it.
-td
08-30-2009, 06:29 PM
#18
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This one got rather nasty quickly.
08-30-2009, 07:54 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Me? I wasn't being nasty and only partially facetious. I was going to do just that but bought a Tacoma instead to pull the track 996 (and 964 when necessary- even though its still street legal).
Another 996 for street? Very possible.
Another 996 for street? Very possible.
08-30-2009, 09:31 PM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
However, it doesn't matter if I know you or your disciplines, etc, your attitude was way off base and there is no getting around that.My attitude?...man, re-read my first post and please let me know where I was off-base. If any attitude was shown, it was as a result of a response that didn't have any relevance to my original question AND was tinted with premature judgement...something I didn't really expect here.
Not sure what "unaccurate" means means but the point is (and clearly seen by everybody) -yes, by the ones who didn't answer my question that you are preoccupied with speed as a measure of being up front and the recognition that comes with that.-now I have to wonder if you are baiting me, because I never wrote any such thing. There is no place for that in DE and it seems to have become a growing trend lately in the DE crowd.-perhaps, shame you find it your business to vent to me...hope you feel better from it.
What I meant by (and should have stated as such) ZERO safety means you can't have a rollbar/cage in a car to run a proper seat, harness system and HANS and still have the ability to tote your kids around. Just trying to go on what I am hearing.
-Missed that one, huh.
So, while we are still listening, please explain better what you are trying to accomplish in your DE events b/c from the outset it has sounded like you can't stand not being up front really?...it sounded that way? or did someone just jump on that bandwagon of accusation and it's just too easy to pile-on around here for some?and you want to know what it will take to be there.--wow...I can't seem to find where I wrote that...
And trust me, nobody is getting their panties in a wad. Try seeing what would happen if you posted this over in the racing/DE forum. Now that would have been a roast.-sounds scary. But that's a great idea, thank you.
Not sure what "unaccurate" means means but the point is (and clearly seen by everybody) -yes, by the ones who didn't answer my question that you are preoccupied with speed as a measure of being up front and the recognition that comes with that.-now I have to wonder if you are baiting me, because I never wrote any such thing. There is no place for that in DE and it seems to have become a growing trend lately in the DE crowd.-perhaps, shame you find it your business to vent to me...hope you feel better from it.
What I meant by (and should have stated as such) ZERO safety means you can't have a rollbar/cage in a car to run a proper seat, harness system and HANS and still have the ability to tote your kids around. Just trying to go on what I am hearing.
So, while we are still listening, please explain better what you are trying to accomplish in your DE events b/c from the outset it has sounded like you can't stand not being up front really?...it sounded that way? or did someone just jump on that bandwagon of accusation and it's just too easy to pile-on around here for some?and you want to know what it will take to be there.--wow...I can't seem to find where I wrote that...
And trust me, nobody is getting their panties in a wad. Try seeing what would happen if you posted this over in the racing/DE forum. Now that would have been a roast.-sounds scary. But that's a great idea, thank you.
Disappointed? If you were driving the Lotus to its limit, why would you be disappointed that cars with twice the HP were passing you?
Being passed is different than "owned". I was being held-up in the turns, being pulled on the straights, catching up in the braking zone and then "stuck in the train" for the turns again. I'm sure you've experienced this before, we all have. Let's face it, DEs are not racing, late-braking and stuffing it in inside to make a pass in the turns is not what it's about and considered somewhat poor form, yes? Some people are not as polite and courteous as we'd like them to be.
You should search here and renntech on this point. Getting a rollbar in and out isn't always easy (or cheap).-Bolt-in bars would not be out of the question for removal for me. New windshields can be quite expensive. YOu might consider the tequipment bar with removable crossbrace if you really need the back seat. Good idea, and I appreciate the suggestion, although I would never have exposed tubes in a car with my children...not even for a 'round the block' run. If you really plan to have a dedicated track car, you should take that route now, as it will end up being cheaper in the long run. Constantly modding a street car for more speed is not cost effective. Man, that is the truth.
-td
Being passed is different than "owned". I was being held-up in the turns, being pulled on the straights, catching up in the braking zone and then "stuck in the train" for the turns again. I'm sure you've experienced this before, we all have. Let's face it, DEs are not racing, late-braking and stuffing it in inside to make a pass in the turns is not what it's about and considered somewhat poor form, yes? Some people are not as polite and courteous as we'd like them to be.
You should search here and renntech on this point. Getting a rollbar in and out isn't always easy (or cheap).-Bolt-in bars would not be out of the question for removal for me. New windshields can be quite expensive. YOu might consider the tequipment bar with removable crossbrace if you really need the back seat. Good idea, and I appreciate the suggestion, although I would never have exposed tubes in a car with my children...not even for a 'round the block' run. If you really plan to have a dedicated track car, you should take that route now, as it will end up being cheaper in the long run. Constantly modding a street car for more speed is not cost effective. Man, that is the truth.
-td
Again, I appreciate all your replies.
-TomK
Last edited by ace996; 08-30-2009 at 10:00 PM.
08-30-2009, 11:28 PM
#22
I was being held-up in the turns, being pulled on the straights, catching up in the braking zone and then "stuck in the train" for the turns again. I'm sure you've experienced this before, we all have.
Dell DE'd his daily driver 996, then GT3, for many years - and now he's working his race car. I DE'd my daily driver 996, and now my GT3, for many years - no race car in my future though. I think we will both attest that (despite what others have said), there is NO daily driving 996C2 that is anywhere near as fast as a GT3, Turbo, Z06, Viper, etc. (all things being equal, like driver ability and tires). With barely over 300 HP, you will get still get pulled, maybe not as pronounced as the Elise, but the story ends the same.
But, to give you an idea of the potential of a properly track prepped 996, here is a video of me chasing my buddy in his chipped 996 TT - pushing around 500 HP to the wheels. I was driving a 3.4L 996, PSS9, and a few other track goodies. No need to watch the whole thing, the first 3 minutes or so should do the trick.
-td
08-30-2009, 11:41 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
ace...I give your responses at this point the big whatever. I've tried (as have others) but you are just way too defensive and don't want to hear from those of us that can READ exactly what you said. Instead of getting pissed like the typical internet troll at posting a thread and looking for feedback that is self serving try LISTENING to what we are saying instead of getting so offended. You've heard my $.02 and I'm done playing your game. Hopefully you get what you are looking to hear. 
08-30-2009, 11:44 PM
#24
Drifting
ace...I give your responses at this point the big whatever. I've tried (as have others) but you are just way too defensive and don't want to hear from those of us that can READ exactly what you said. Instead of getting pissed like the typical internet troll at posting a thread and looking for feedback that is self serving try LISTENING to what we are saying instead of getting so offended. You've heard my $.02 and I'm done playing your game. Hopefully you get what you are looking to hear.
08-31-2009, 12:03 AM
#25
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
ace996;
I can appreciate where you're coming from. I've ran some DEs in an e36 M3 street car up in the Northeast, and I wasn't much more than a rolling road block in that car. I say that as somebody who's won multiple time trials -in that M3-, to give you an idea, somebody above said 1.5x was fast at Thunderhill, here's a lap in a 996 C2 I've had (completely stock other than safety/gt3 coil overs and sway bars), sub 1.38;
That's in line with what some IP cars and many spec race classes do on that track, and this was my daily driver, complete with bike rack, running on street tires. In fact that session is a stop @Thunderhill during a cross country trip.
The point is when the field consists of a dozen Cup cars, a few Ferrari Challenge cars, some Vipers and C6 z06's and what not, it's hard to have fun in a very low horsepower car, and not because you're not pushing your car, but because you're being molested by lap traffic... Viewed from that perspective, I will say that the 996 is not only "fast enough" but has been very durable. Unlike the M3s which really needed a race pad, I'd been running a dual purpose pad on the C2, and the ride is still bearable, has great A/C, stereo, etc. It also hasn't needed constant upkeep of subsystems (control arms, radiators, etc.) that many other cars seem to.
himself;
I've been held up in many instructor groups, and I've witnessed several instructors display unacceptable behavior -including some veterans, there can be bad apples in every basket... Also, I'm curious about this engine oil issue, I'd been running street tires, but I've seen oil pressure drop in every 996 C2 I've been in. That said, just yesterday I saw a 996 (1999) original owner who's been tracking it for the better part of a decade, NEVER any issues with the car.
Dell;
I feel that you have an idea what you're talking about, but are often mangled in debates. For one reason or another, you often bring out arguments, and I'm of the opinion that you have some blame to take, you're too abrasive when you disagree with people, using a condescending tone. Carried over from your day job perhaps? This is my observation, hope you take it to be constructive.
I can appreciate where you're coming from. I've ran some DEs in an e36 M3 street car up in the Northeast, and I wasn't much more than a rolling road block in that car. I say that as somebody who's won multiple time trials -in that M3-, to give you an idea, somebody above said 1.5x was fast at Thunderhill, here's a lap in a 996 C2 I've had (completely stock other than safety/gt3 coil overs and sway bars), sub 1.38;
That's in line with what some IP cars and many spec race classes do on that track, and this was my daily driver, complete with bike rack, running on street tires. In fact that session is a stop @Thunderhill during a cross country trip.
The point is when the field consists of a dozen Cup cars, a few Ferrari Challenge cars, some Vipers and C6 z06's and what not, it's hard to have fun in a very low horsepower car, and not because you're not pushing your car, but because you're being molested by lap traffic... Viewed from that perspective, I will say that the 996 is not only "fast enough" but has been very durable. Unlike the M3s which really needed a race pad, I'd been running a dual purpose pad on the C2, and the ride is still bearable, has great A/C, stereo, etc. It also hasn't needed constant upkeep of subsystems (control arms, radiators, etc.) that many other cars seem to.
himself;
I've been held up in many instructor groups, and I've witnessed several instructors display unacceptable behavior -including some veterans, there can be bad apples in every basket... Also, I'm curious about this engine oil issue, I'd been running street tires, but I've seen oil pressure drop in every 996 C2 I've been in. That said, just yesterday I saw a 996 (1999) original owner who's been tracking it for the better part of a decade, NEVER any issues with the car.
Dell;
I feel that you have an idea what you're talking about, but are often mangled in debates. For one reason or another, you often bring out arguments, and I'm of the opinion that you have some blame to take, you're too abrasive when you disagree with people, using a condescending tone. Carried over from your day job perhaps? This is my observation, hope you take it to be constructive.
08-31-2009, 12:11 AM
#26
himself;
I've been held up in many instructor groups, and I've witnessed several instructors display unacceptable behavior -including some veterans, there can be bad apples in every basket... Also, I'm curious about this engine oil issue, I'd been running street tires, but I've seen oil pressure drop in every 996 C2 I've been in. That said, just yesterday I saw a 996 (1999) original owner who's been tracking it for the better part of a decade, NEVER any issues with the car.
I've been held up in many instructor groups, and I've witnessed several instructors display unacceptable behavior -including some veterans, there can be bad apples in every basket... Also, I'm curious about this engine oil issue, I'd been running street tires, but I've seen oil pressure drop in every 996 C2 I've been in. That said, just yesterday I saw a 996 (1999) original owner who's been tracking it for the better part of a decade, NEVER any issues with the car.
Maybe Raby knows for sure... As for bad apples in the basket, it seems that the organizers in your area are more lenient than 'round here. You don't play nice, you don't get to play.
[edit: -> bolt, not hill! lol. 1:38 at ThunderHILL would be SMOKING on street tires!]
-td
08-31-2009, 12:15 AM
#27
Ironman 140.6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'll assume your motives and your skill level are both good (in spite of your pooly worded post) and answer "yes". There are many on RL who have DE'd and Club Raced 996's with good results. In the right hands a well prepared 996 is capable of turning impressive lap times.
Last edited by Ray S; 08-31-2009 at 11:03 AM.
08-31-2009, 12:24 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Great logic but Thunderbolt is not equal to Thunderhill. I believe it is a east coast vs west coast thing. 
ace996;
I can appreciate where you're coming from. I've ran some DEs in an e36 M3 street car up in the Northeast, and I wasn't much more than a rolling road block in that car. I say that as somebody who's won multiple time trials -in that M3-, to give you an idea, somebody above said 1.5x was fast at Thunderhill, here's a lap in a 996 C2 I've had (completely stock other than safety/gt3 coil overs and sway bars), sub 1.38;
That's in line with what some IP cars and many spec race classes do on that track, and this was my daily driver, complete with bike rack, running on street tires. In fact that session is a stop @Thunderhill during a cross country trip.
The point is when the field consists of a dozen Cup cars, a few Ferrari Challenge cars, some Vipers and C6 z06's and what not, it's hard to have fun in a very low horsepower car, and not because you're not pushing your car, but because you're being molested by lap traffic... Viewed from that perspective, I will say that the 996 is not only "fast enough" but has been very durable. Unlike the M3s which really needed a race pad, I'd been running a dual purpose pad on the C2, and the ride is still bearable, has great A/C, stereo, etc. It also hasn't needed constant upkeep of subsystems (control arms, radiators, etc.) that many other cars seem to.
himself;
I've been held up in many instructor groups, and I've witnessed several instructors display unacceptable behavior -including some veterans, there can be bad apples in every basket... Also, I'm curious about this engine oil issue, I'd been running street tires, but I've seen oil pressure drop in every 996 C2 I've been in. That said, just yesterday I saw a 996 (1999) original owner who's been tracking it for the better part of a decade, NEVER any issues with the car.
Dell;
I feel that you have an idea what you're talking about, but are often mangled in debates. For one reason or another, you often bring out arguments, and I'm of the opinion that you have some blame to take, you're too abrasive when you disagree with people, using a condescending tone. Carried over from your day job perhaps? This is my observation, hope you take it to be constructive.
I can appreciate where you're coming from. I've ran some DEs in an e36 M3 street car up in the Northeast, and I wasn't much more than a rolling road block in that car. I say that as somebody who's won multiple time trials -in that M3-, to give you an idea, somebody above said 1.5x was fast at Thunderhill, here's a lap in a 996 C2 I've had (completely stock other than safety/gt3 coil overs and sway bars), sub 1.38;
That's in line with what some IP cars and many spec race classes do on that track, and this was my daily driver, complete with bike rack, running on street tires. In fact that session is a stop @Thunderhill during a cross country trip.
The point is when the field consists of a dozen Cup cars, a few Ferrari Challenge cars, some Vipers and C6 z06's and what not, it's hard to have fun in a very low horsepower car, and not because you're not pushing your car, but because you're being molested by lap traffic... Viewed from that perspective, I will say that the 996 is not only "fast enough" but has been very durable. Unlike the M3s which really needed a race pad, I'd been running a dual purpose pad on the C2, and the ride is still bearable, has great A/C, stereo, etc. It also hasn't needed constant upkeep of subsystems (control arms, radiators, etc.) that many other cars seem to.
himself;
I've been held up in many instructor groups, and I've witnessed several instructors display unacceptable behavior -including some veterans, there can be bad apples in every basket... Also, I'm curious about this engine oil issue, I'd been running street tires, but I've seen oil pressure drop in every 996 C2 I've been in. That said, just yesterday I saw a 996 (1999) original owner who's been tracking it for the better part of a decade, NEVER any issues with the car.
Dell;
I feel that you have an idea what you're talking about, but are often mangled in debates. For one reason or another, you often bring out arguments, and I'm of the opinion that you have some blame to take, you're too abrasive when you disagree with people, using a condescending tone. Carried over from your day job perhaps? This is my observation, hope you take it to be constructive.
08-31-2009, 12:28 AM
#29
Instructor
Thread Starter
ace...I give your responses at this point the big whatever. ...
...oh, no, not the big whatever... I've tried (as have others) but you are just way too defensive and don't want to hear from those of us that can READ exactly what you said.- Exactly?...guy, you've proven to ME that you can't read without the ego and you interpret what you want to want to talk about. I asked a question about the 6C2 and you've yet to discuss ANYTHING remotely close to the topic. Instead of getting pissed like the typical internet troll ...more insults?...I expected more from you...
at posting a thread and looking for feedback that is self serving try LISTENING to what we (again with the "WE"...who's this "We"? don't pull anyone else into that pool with you)are saying instead of getting so offended.-Offended??? Get over yourself...NOTHING you could do or say would offend me. You've irritated me a bit by failing at staying on topic, poor reading comprehension, and whatever else causes you to be pompous and abrasive. You've heard my $.02 -not worth it...and I'm done playing your game....your game...and quite poorly, I might add... Hopefully you get what you are looking to hear. ...I actually did, from HIMSELF, himself...and a couple others who've learned to stay on topic.
...oh, no, not the big whatever... I've tried (as have others) but you are just way too defensive and don't want to hear from those of us that can READ exactly what you said.- Exactly?...guy, you've proven to ME that you can't read without the ego and you interpret what you want to want to talk about. I asked a question about the 6C2 and you've yet to discuss ANYTHING remotely close to the topic. Instead of getting pissed like the typical internet troll ...more insults?...I expected more from you...at posting a thread and looking for feedback that is self serving try LISTENING to what we (again with the "WE"...who's this "We"? don't pull anyone else into that pool with you)are saying instead of getting so offended.-Offended??? Get over yourself...NOTHING you could do or say would offend me. You've irritated me a bit by failing at staying on topic, poor reading comprehension, and whatever else causes you to be pompous and abrasive. You've heard my $.02 -not worth it...and I'm done playing your game....your game...and quite poorly, I might add... Hopefully you get what you are looking to hear. ...I actually did, from HIMSELF, himself...and a couple others who've learned to stay on topic. This is true. But running a 996C2 on slicks trying to get the same lap times as a stock GT3 can result in premature engine failure. There is a rumor that sustained high G loads will grenade a 996. Just what I've heard.
I have been held up as well, but NEVER in the instructor group. And almost never in the advanced group. Any instructor pulling those shenanigans won't be instructing for long. And in the advanced group, you're likely to get black flagged for a whole session doing stuff like that.
Dell DE'd his daily driver 996, then GT3, for many years - and now he's working his race car. I DE'd my daily driver 996, and now my GT3, for many years - no race car in my future though. I think we will both attest that (despite what others have said), there is NO daily driving 996C2 that is anywhere near as fast as a GT3, Turbo, Z06, Viper, etc. (all things being equal, like driver ability and tires). With barely over 300 HP, you will get still get pulled, maybe not as pronounced as the Elise, but the story ends the same.
But, to give you an idea of the potential of a properly track prepped 996, here is a video of me chasing my buddy in his chipped 996 TT - pushing around 500 HP to the wheels. I was driving a 3.4L 996, PSS9, and a few other track goodies. No need to watch the whole thing, the first 3 minutes or so should do the trick.
-td
I have been held up as well, but NEVER in the instructor group. And almost never in the advanced group. Any instructor pulling those shenanigans won't be instructing for long. And in the advanced group, you're likely to get black flagged for a whole session doing stuff like that.
Dell DE'd his daily driver 996, then GT3, for many years - and now he's working his race car. I DE'd my daily driver 996, and now my GT3, for many years - no race car in my future though. I think we will both attest that (despite what others have said), there is NO daily driving 996C2 that is anywhere near as fast as a GT3, Turbo, Z06, Viper, etc. (all things being equal, like driver ability and tires). With barely over 300 HP, you will get still get pulled, maybe not as pronounced as the Elise, but the story ends the same.
But, to give you an idea of the potential of a properly track prepped 996, here is a video of me chasing my buddy in his chipped 996 TT - pushing around 500 HP to the wheels. I was driving a 3.4L 996, PSS9, and a few other track goodies. No need to watch the whole thing, the first 3 minutes or so should do the trick.
-td
Ahmet, Ray...
Thanks for your replies, I very much appreciate them.
Thanks,
TomK