Thoughts on installing a 'cooler' thermostat...???
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,978
Likes: 10
From: San Antonio, TX
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Remember that this is a debate about whether changing to a lower opening thermostat will reduce coolant temperatures. No other changes to engine or conditions. Obviously there are many mods that can be done to reduce temperatures, but a thermostat change alone will not do it.
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,978
Likes: 10
From: San Antonio, TX
Remember that this is a debate about whether changing to a lower opening thermostat will reduce coolant temperatures. No other changes to engine or conditions. Obviously there are many mods that can be done to reduce temperatures, but a thermostat change alone will not do it.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia
Cooler t-stat or no t-stat results in cooler running car. I've done it several times on American V8's. And sometimes they run too cool. Why - because their (latent) heat exchange system capacity generally overmatches their generated heat (hot water). The cooler t-stat or no t-stat allows more water to be "heat exchanged" during during a given time - hence a cooler running car - too simple to understand, huh!? Now the 996 has a pretty well overloaded heat exchanger system as it is, it was designed to operate at the very edge of it's margin to for tangible cooling - why? Because that's the way Porsche designs anything - just ask all the air cooled guys - and I have owned a bunch of them. So the 160 degree stat on the 996 results in a smaller degree of improvement. Why - becasue the coolant system on the 996 just absolutely sucks. On the ottobahn at speed it will work ok, but for U.S. driving or tracking (oooops - remember that the 996 was not built to be tracked - shame on you if you overheat the darn thing wihile DE'ing). So - cooler or NO stat = cooler running car if your radiator is up to it. Yes - the 996 'radiators' are not really up to it - even with the aux fans, they simply come on TOO damn late. Too bad we can reflash the cptr to provide for them to come on 20 degreee sooner. I think the cars would live longer if they did.
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,651
Likes: 8
From: Chino hills, CA
See if this logic makes sense. No thermostat also means longer warm up time, which is bad for emission and puts more wear and tear on the engine because now it take longer for the oil temperature to reach the proper viscousity for protection. So what we really need is a thermostat that allows the car to warm up as quickly as possible, but once warmed up to fully open to allow as much cooling as possible. Make sense? Time for a electronic servo controlled thermostat?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia
See if this logic makes sense. No thermostat also means longer warm up time, which is bad for emission and puts more wear and tear on the engine because now it take longer for the oil temperature to reach the proper viscousity for protection. So what we really need is a thermostat that allows the car to warm up as quickly as possible, but once warmed up to fully open to allow as much cooling as possible. Make sense? Time for a electronic servo controlled thermostat?
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,651
Likes: 8
From: Chino hills, CA
True - but I don't think a slow warmup is going to actually result in a shorter engine life. Maybe someone can comment on the 2ndary air pump that comes on following a COLD start. Is it's run time based on a 'clock' or engine temp??? Good idea on the electronic t-stat maybe.
I am a true believer or engine wear from cold oil, that's why I always cringe when my wife gets in her car and floors the gas and take off right after a cold start.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia
Well - think of it this way: when the engine is started cold, the engine itself (pistons, cylinders, rings, valves, rods, etc) are going to warm up in about 15 seconds. The coolant will take a little longer, but you don;t really care about the'coolant' early in the initial start cycle if you use your brain when driving away and excercise reason. Wives can be taught - but usually at the expense of a tangible 'treat' - carat on a stick so to speak.
The specs. on running the SAI pump is different for all cars, but I am pretty sure the run time is based on engine coolant temp, and possible from the 2nd 02 voltage output.
I am a true believer or engine wear from cold oil, that's why I always cringe when my wife gets in her car and floors the gas and take off right after a cold start.
I am a true believer or engine wear from cold oil, that's why I always cringe when my wife gets in her car and floors the gas and take off right after a cold start.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Non-Flat Six Porsches You Can Buy For Under $100K
Joe Kucinski
Porsche's Top 5 Most Questionable Naming Decisions
Verdad Gallardo
Pogea Racing's 964 Porsche 911 Reimagination Stands Out in a Crowded Field
Verdad Gallardo
6 Convertible Top MYTHS Most People Don't Understand!
Michael S. Palmer
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 8
From: Chicagoland
Well - think of it this way: when the engine is started cold, the engine itself (pistons, cylinders, rings, valves, rods, etc) are going to warm up in about 15 seconds. The coolant will take a little longer, but you don;t really care about the'coolant' early in the initial start cycle if you use your brain when driving away and excercise reason. Wives can be taught - but usually at the expense of a tangible 'treat' - carat on a stick so to speak.
It takes alot longer than 15 seconds for those components to reach proper temperatures. Until that time, all you have is hot spots which is the most vulnerable time for the engine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 6
From: Mississauga, Canada
Marlon, if we have two equal taps and you open yours first,
does that mean you are running more water?
It surprises me that Jake is making such statements... I thought his IMS bearing developments and were great,
but this 20 degree drop claim is baffling.
I am more scared of micro-cracks (leading to things like a D chunk) from running a cold engine, than running an engine at 196F.
at 193 (make that even 200- it is fine)
does that mean you are running more water?
It surprises me that Jake is making such statements... I thought his IMS bearing developments and were great,
but this 20 degree drop claim is baffling.
I am more scared of micro-cracks (leading to things like a D chunk) from running a cold engine, than running an engine at 196F.
at 193 (make that even 200- it is fine)
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia
I was schooled on always providing a rapid double-tap to the torso followed by an accurate head shot - works great. Resultant flow will depend on after-action enemy orientation with the ground. I recommend that you articulate your bafflement directly to Jake. I can help you with double tap training though
Marlon, if we have two equal taps and you open yours first,
does that mean you are running more water?
It surprises me that Jake is making such statements... I thought his IMS bearing developments and were great,
but this 20 degree drop claim is baffling.
I am more scared of micro-cracks (leading to things like a D chunk) from running a cold engine, than running an engine at 196F.
at 193 (make that even 200- it is fine)
does that mean you are running more water?
It surprises me that Jake is making such statements... I thought his IMS bearing developments and were great,
but this 20 degree drop claim is baffling.
I am more scared of micro-cracks (leading to things like a D chunk) from running a cold engine, than running an engine at 196F.
at 193 (make that even 200- it is fine)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 6
From: Mississauga, Canada
I was schooled on always providing a rapid double-tap to the torso followed by an accurate head shot - works great. Resultant flow will depend on after-action enemy orientation with the ground. I recommend that you articulate your bafflement directly to Jake. I can help you with the double tap though
for intelligence flow-
but you remind me of my marcial art fighting days 
If you do the mod, please keep us posted
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia