ryangambrill

Hello Guys-

It is my personality to research everything to death. probably why it took so long to pull the trigger on the 996.

Anyway, I am starting my research on a replacement car for my 2001 Jetta. She just broke 100k miles and we will need to replace her when we have another child.

The 996 has been my first "pre-owned" car. I feel much better about not having a brand new vehicle and wonder if I could get more for my money on a replacement for the Jetta.

What are your experiences with 05-07 7 Series BMW's and 05-07 Audi A8's? I am seeing some amazing deals on these cars.

Being that we are Porsche drivers, we have a similar expectation in driving dynamics and experience. Thoughts?

htny

Had an 08 A8 loaner car for five days two weeks ago. Beautiful car, lovely interior, a great car from 04-06 technology wise, but for my money today, I don't think there's any beating an 07 S550 (make sure you drive one with the active body control). Seen CPO cars in the 40s (100-110k stickers on many), and while you may feel the looks are controversial, it is the best experience in any full sized car on the inside, and with ABC and that motor its very fun to drive.

I also recently did an 09 5er xDrive and think it's a very good car, has active body control-type stabilizers so it corners dead flat, incredible deal new. Never saw the point in the modern 7-series since the new 5 is so competent, AWD and very decent sized.

ryangambrill

Talk about taking a beating on value. And people on this board complain about P-Car's.

An 07 S550 in the 40's with CPO.

It seems like there are a ton of lux cars that are 3-4 years old in the $30k - $40k price range.

buzztt

i'm stating the obvious but of course service and repairs on a 100k car will be a lot more then you are used to with the jetta, i heard the audi can be prone to very expensive electrical issues, not sure about the 7, the prices are amazing right now though so if it were me i would jump on one but i might think about a good aftermarket warranty for peace of mind if it wasnt already cpo'd

good luck, my vote would be for a 7 but an s550 would be a very close 2nd

htny

If you don't need to go super big, an W211 E55 is hands down the best cpo sedan to get IMHO, they are just sooo much fun, easy to goose a few extra horsepower out of, and great AMG fit/finish. The only fly in that ointment is I see you live in Cleveland, and no amount of snow tire will keep 500+ ft/lbs on the road in your winters.

A8s (and A6s for that matter) definitely have some very expensive fixes, esp as mileage piles on. Aside from the cats, which are a fortune due to the way the exhaust is laid out, and the exhausts themselves, you've got front ends that just go at high mileage (80 to 100K) and cost a TON to fix, and the air suspension in the A8 isn't any cheaper to fix!

Drive a few cars, and make sure you get a lot of warranty. Any one of the 3 (A8, 7, s550) has insanely complicated systems which will cost a fortune to fix. And no independent mechanic is fixing your active body control.

I went down this road this winter when replacing an aging A6, drove a 7, s, and did the 09 5 because it was so cheap at the time and had AWD and a ton of useful features like Dynamic Drive and Bluetooth and Ipod (inventory is under control now so the deals aren't as severe). Had I known summer would have this flood of s550s I would have waited, but hey that's that and I love the 5 (when I get to drive it!). My buddy bought an S550, 2007 4matic with so many sunshades I'm not sure how he sees out of the thing, $50K with 3 years of CPO (Starmark warranty), 30K miles, beautiful car, and this was 4 months ago and the extension to the standard 1 year warranty was nearly 5K. He has a 997S Cab and honestly he never drives it anymore!

ryangambrill

This car will mostly be driven in the winter and only in the summer when I need more space than the 996 can handle.

I know that it is a totally different car, but the VW CC is really nice looking. I am thinking I should test drive that as well.

fw2001c4

few words of caution on buying 2-3yr old flagships. ive been down that road before with a bmw 740il. i loved the car but once things started to go wrong at the 6yr mark(from new or 3yrs of my ownership), man it was painful... i felt lucky if the bill was less than a grand. unfortunately, that never happened. from brakes to 2 other things i needed fixed outside of cpo, it was 1200 and 1500.

but the worst part is when the time comes for you to sell. theres is simply no market for 6+yr old flagships. anyone looking to buy a car in the 15-20k is not looking to buy an older flagship(7, S, A8). i paid 40k for a 3yo 740il and traded it in 3yrs later at 13k. my cost of ownership was about 10k a yr factoring in the repairs and maintenance.... for a friggin 3yo car. so be prepared to own it for a long time or drive it into the ground. resale market will be nonexistent.

fwiw, i think e350 4matics are stupid cheap. you can buy new 09 in mid to low 40's depending on options. i just bought a demo with 61k sticker, 5k miles for 42k. i went demo as it was flint grey. all remaining new 09s are white or black and i didnt want either. if you dont need 4matic, theres tons of colors avail at 15k off msrp easy. curr promo is $10k from factory on e's. priced out comparably equipped(nav, prem)09 528xi at about 48k which currently have $5k cash from factory.

volvos are running crazy good deals too... 5yr warranty, scheduled maint, all wear and tear. so youre good for 5yrs except tires. you can buy xc70 for 31k, s60 for 26k. i just couldnt bring myself to like the volvos as my dd. we did buy an xc90 for 35k, to replace same car we bought 6yr ago for 40k with no included maint, wear and tear, and the 5yr warranty. im sure theres lots more deals out there, but these are the ones i know. good luck with the hunt.

salayc

I have heard the 7 BMWs are crap long term.

ryangambrill

As I have gotten older (and I am not that old), I have gotten over the need to have the latest and greatest car at all times. Hence my reason for going with the 996. At the same time I feel much more comfortable keeping a car for a longer duration.

I know the whole thing about cars not being an investment, yadda, yadda, yadda. My goal is not to maximize every $0.01 on my replacement and have a super low operating cost. I really want something in the middle. Of course I do not want to get into constant repairs in the $1,000+ range.

With more thought, I see FW2001C4's point on the resale value of the flagship cars that are 6+ years old. Would a better choice be an A6, 5 Series, or Eclass? Would the resale market for these cars exhibit the same symptoms? How is the resale market for cars made by our Japanese friends (all models LS, GS, M35, etc.) fair in the 6+ year resale market? I do believe that the preception of Lexus is that the long term maintenance cost is quite affordable.

I had a 2001 GS430 and really liked the car. While did not drive like the Germans, it some sporty characteristics and never gave me a problem. My main goal was to stay with the Germans for the next car, but may consider an Infiniti (never drove one), Acura, or Lexus.

From this conversation, I am learning that the Porsche resale is really in its own silo. As long as you have a well maintained Porsche with average to low miles, there is a market (except for right now with the economy).

I really like the VW CC. It has a really unique look, its german, I love the 2.0T from my other Jetta, and a decent price.

Goals:
Price - $30k's (ballpark range but willing to spend more if necessary for right situation)
Age - New to 3 years old
Time Keeping Car - My goal is to keep the next car up to 100k miles. I will probably drive this next car 10k miles per year as 996 will mostly be used in the summer.
Use - Summer driving when 996 is not big enough, winter driving when 996 is sleeping in storage
Size - big enough for 2 cars seats in back and luggage in trunk. As small as A4 up to A8 for example.
Driving Dynamic - Does not have to be a razor sharp sports sedan but I also do not want to feel like I am driving on a cloud. Somewhere in the middle is probably good. Comfort on a long trip is good. I will always have a P-Car for more dynamic driving
AWD - Would be nice for the winters in Cleveland.

Thoughts?

skiracer

While it's more than 3 yrs old, the D2 S8 is a fantastic used car at bargain prices. Unlike the D3, the D2 can be easily repaired by indies or DIY. Factory sport suspension, brakes and engine upgrades make it a true drivers car. It is also one of the few vehicles safety-rated at 5 stars for all 5 passengers. Based on your useage profile, it would more than meet your needs and you could pocket $15k for another project.

RallyJon

Don't discount the somewhat less than successful pimp/drug dealer market.

There are still people for whom badge status (even if somewhat out of date) matters. 15 years ago, my boss sold his 560SEL that way. Ad in the right paper, payment in cash, quick and easy.

fw2001c4

i think the audience expands as you go further down the line up so yes, a6, 5, e would be better from a resale audience standpoint and even better with a4, 3, c in my opinion. but you do mention that youre gonna keep the car for a long time so resale may be a minor or not even a consideration.

ive always loved the lexus IS for its great looks and value. looks like a GS without the price tag and is much more sporty... doesnt drive like a lexus at all. lotsa car for 33k with AWD but no NAV. very lil room in the back... 2 adults wont be comfortable back there. trunk space also on small side. but if you can get past that, this is an awesome value in my view. i considered it strongly but i needed a lil more headroom(im 6'1") and the E350 was just too compelling for me to pass up.