Tippy

Fuel Injection Specialties here in SA, TX can make the necessary mods to the ECU to do it.

Renegade, Im sure could make a bellhousing adapter and input shaft or whatever else to hook up the driveline.

GothingNC

Sorry to hear about the loss of your motor

Just swap the motor from this GTI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVPKIr_W6hs

John

othomasjr

Sorry to hear your news, but join the crowd.
Since Porsche and Volkswagon are nearly one company, I wonder if Volkswagon will start having massive engine failures.

Marlon

...only when they start designing an aircooled GTI...

Paul 996

100% will work perfectly. Simply have them unbolt the cable throttle and replace with the e-gas throttle. No brainer and no touching of anything else, underneath the 3.4 is a 3.4. My 99 C2 car has a 2003 3.6 that was e-gas.

Good luck, let us know which direction you take.

This thread is really friggin hard to follow with all the OT nonsense.

Paul 996

Anything can be done.. Using a 997 based motor in a 996/986 is not as straight forward. Your biggest hurdle is that the 997 went to a different way of supply the fuel rails which is not an easy swap in.

I know there was a 996 owner that used a 997S 3.8X51 motor but I have never been able to hear about the results first hand.

You likely hear of Cayman and 987 Boxster's doing 997 based upgrades because they share subsystems.

steepsnow

I have located a 3.4L engine that loooks good, "on paper." It is a used factory remanufactured engine with less than 10k miles. It was "new" in 2005, was in a car that was wrecked, then was pulled and has been sitting for about 18 months. The engine is not local (to me), so it would have to be shipped.

First, I have been told by a shop that an engine that was used, then sat in a crate for that long could have problems. ...is this true/possible?

Second, they said that an engine from a wrecked car might not have visible damage, but could still have problems. ...is this true/possible?

Lastly, is a visible inspection enough to determine any problems from sitting and/or trauma from a wreck? Or, is there a way to test an engine before putting into the car?

Tbred911

your shop is totally right... the engine isn't in the car... you can't even start it... so you don't know how it will run... if the car was hit in the rear.. forget it... if it was a hard hit in the front it could have pushed the tranny back into the motor... the shock could also have weakened the head which will result in early death ... I'd pass on it

Suncoast is having an engine sale on the 997 3.6 reman engine for $6,100... for another $6K you can find all the necessary 3.6 parts (from a 02 996 - compatible electronics to make it work with 997 engine) like ECU, fuel pressure sender, center console sender, e-pedals etc... and have have a new and improved 3.6 in your car for a total of $12K... and you'll get 2 years warranty out of it... it s a helluvalot cheaper than a 3.4 @ $16K installed...

steepsnow

The 997 3.6L engine from Suncoast sounds great. However, I have not found a shop in the Denver Co. area that has done such a swap. I have talked to 6 shops (2 dealers, 2 P-car specialists, 2 german with P-certified techs). All have recommended against that route or simply will not do it. They have mentioned potential problems with electronics(HVAC, ABS, PSM), DME remapping/programming, Vario-Cam, clutch (which to use 997 or 996). Also, that there would be a lot of trial and error to get it tuned. ...does all of that sound right (or just lack of experience)?
Is it possible to get all of that stuff "dialed?"

Does anyone have experience with such a swap? ...know anyone with experience that could consult(paid) with a local shop for such a job? ...know anywhere I could ship the car with such experience?

One guesstimate for labor was 50+ hours. Does that sound right?

Darren

Hehe...my point exactly, you go engineering these things you could wind up spending LOTS of money! This is something you wait for someone else to figure out.

Paul 996

I heard the same nonsense and all the same red flags. Specifically from those with no experience.

Find a shop that has done it. They are out there. Even if they are not local to you it is worthwhile to ship it there. A friend and I each shipped our cars from DC to Atlanta to have our conversions done. But at least their tech had experience doing these before. (key is their tech) not necessarily the establishment. On the east coast I can think of at least 4 places that have done it if not more. Roock Autosport (did mine), Orton Performance, Farnbacher Loles, Deman Motorsport. For the west coast I can't help you too much.

Tbred911

no that sounds like estimates from people who have never done it... here in Toronto there is a shop that has done that conversion many many times... and it works and works well... you need to find somebody who has done it... labour isn't more than 40 hours and you'll need the parts I mentioned... everything will work as well... if you can't find somebody who has done it then *definitely* don't do it as those who have done it once or twice have found it extremely challenging... I don't know anybody in the colorado area who has done this... perhaps you can contact FVD and ship the car to them? I don't know how much they charge but they have experience doing it... I know there are some guys in California that can do it as well...

steepsnow

I have done quite a bit of research on this forum, other forums and lots of phone calls and local shop visits. If anyone else has an engine failure, this summary may be helpful. My car is a 1999 C4 with "egas," so "drive by wire" cars are a little different.

I am located in Colorado. While there are many good indy shops, none has done any type of 3.6L conversion (996 or 997 motor). I spoke to every shop that advertises in RMR PCA magazine, plus both Denver Dealers and a couple "German" car specialists with Porsche Techs. Thus, to consider a motor conversion, I decided that using an experienced shop would be a better route than trial and error by a local shop (even after shipping costs).

Presently, there is special pricing on 997-3.6L motors from SunCoast. While the price was guesstimated above to be $6100, the real price is $7263.80+shipping. I have found used 996-3.4L and 996 3.6L engines ranging from $6,000-$7,500.

Lastly, new (factory remanufactured) 996-3.6L motors are about the same price at the 3.4L at $14K. Due to this price, I did not bother with the option of a "new," 996-3.6L in this comparison. Also, the conversion to 997-3.6L was as little as $500 more than using a 996-3.6L. Thus, due to the present Suncoast pricing, I did not evaluate using a used 996-3.6L.


Here are some of the options and pricing as of August 1, 2009:

A) NO MOTOR CONVERSION:

1) Used 3.4L 996 Motor
Base Price: $7,000 (approx. including shipping)
Extra Parts/Fluids: $500-$2,000 (includes pre-purchase "testing," plus extras at time of work)
Labor: 11-15 hours
TOTAL: approx. $9,000-$10,500

2) Porsche Remanufactured 3.4L 996 Motor
Motor Base Price: $14,000 (approx. due to core charge possible refund, shipping, sales tax)
Extra Parts/Fluids: $200-$1,000 (to be determined at time of work)
Labor: 9-12 hours
(Note: I had one dealer quote this at 11 hours and the other at 22, no indy shop was over 12)
TOTAL: approx. $15,000-$16,000


B) 997-3.6L MOTOR CONVERSION
Since no local shop had experience with a 3.6L swap, I did some research, then called two well regarded shops that have done several. I am confident either of these would be a good way to go. However, they completely different approach to the replacement. If anyone is considering this (and not located close to these shops), I suggest calling both shops, then speaking with your local maintenance shop to help decide what they can/cannot handle. I am sure there are other shops (some mentioned above in this thread), that can do this type of work, but I stopped making calls after the two prices were so similar.

1) Roock, Location: GA + CA
Motor Base Price: $7500 (includes shipping)
Labor+Extra Parts: $5500
Shipping car to/from CO-GA: $1500
TOTAL: $14,500
NOTE: This conversion method uses the existing 3.4L DME and wiring harness. They use a "black-box" to control the variocam plus and other motor timing. There are additional engine mods, plus the fuel sender as required for the 997 motor. ALL electrical functions will work as expected (HVAC, Instrument Panel, no check engine light," cruise control, PSM, etc.)

2) GMG Racing, Location: CA
Motor Base Price: $7500 (includes shipping)
DME and Wiring Harness: $1500 (includes shipping)
Extra Parts: $500-$1500
Labor: $4500
Shipping to/from CO-CA: $1500
TOTAL: $15,500-$16,500
NOTE: This method replaces the DME and Wiring Harness. They use custom connections to the instrument panel, plus do the required work on the fuel-sender unit. ALL electrical functions will work as expected (HVAC, Instrument Panel, no check engine light," cruise control, PSM, etc.)


C) CUSTOM BUILD REPLACEMENT ENGINE

1) Flat 6 Innovations, Location: GA
Total Cost approx. $21,500 (includes shipping the car both ways, CO to GA)
NOTE: Call Jake Raby for more details. Basically, for this method Jake builds custom required motor parts based on his extensive testing of the 996 motors. The final engine would be a 3.6L, but it would not be a "conversion" in the sense of using a 996-3.6 or a 997-3.6 motor. Known problem areas of the engine are modified in such a way to "fix" inherent problems with the factory motors. ALL electrical functions will work as expected (HVAC, Instrument Panel, no check engine light," cruise control, PSM, etc.)


~~~~~

In summary, this is the present pricing landscape. It appears to be a "get what you pay for..." scenario. There are good reasons to pick any of the above solutions to getting a 996 with a dead motor back on the road.

pl

very good report, thanks for sharing this with us.
sounds like 997 3.6 is the way to go due to the pricing.

chsu74

Is 996 3.6L X51 engine not an option due to cost of the engine?