smackboy1

I was reading this other thread about steering input corrections on the track and that got me thinking about all the various steering techniques out there.

Skip Barber teaches shuffle steering from the 9-3 position. I'm not sure why. In my experience I have seldom seen in-car video during a race where the driver was shuffle steering. Everybody seems to use the 9-3 and crossover their arms into an X. This works fine for DE. For me, this doesn't work that well turning the wheel beyond around 270* for autocross. I have to let go one hand and regrip the wheel but leaving one hand (or at high steering angles, just one thumb) is always in the same position so I can easily unwind the wheel to straight ahead (I think this is referred to as the Zaccone method). If the course has a few hairpins I might even start in the 8-4 position to give myself a few extra degrees of steering before my arms get crossed and I have to let go with one hand. On a skidpad (or when I spin out) I'm just a mess, I'm doing everything in my power to grab big handfuls of opposite lock, hand over hand, Mr. Miyagi (wax on, wax off), anything just to get the wheel moving quickly enough and then back again to avoid the tank slapper.

How do you steer? Is there anybody who uses the same technique for everything? Street/autocross/track even parallel parking?

ervtx

If the 9 and 3 position doesn't give me enough rotation, I tend to do the same thing: prepare for the turn ahead of time by moving to an 8 and 4 position.

For me, the benefit in shuffling isn't so much to avoid crossing arms. Instead, I do it for reasons of "feel". I find that the feel of the car through the steering wheel is much more sensitive when my hands are pushing up to rotate vs. pulling down. For example, in a left hand turn, I let my right hand do most of the work by pushing up. If I were to pull down with my left, the feel of what the tires are doing just wouldn't be there.

The 8-4 position helps reinforce that push method because there's not much leverage at the 8 position for a left hand turn. If I still need more rotation, I shuffle (again, favoring the pushing hand to continue rotating the wheel). If I were to let my arms cross, I'd worry about losing that feel.

ivangene

9-3 as much of the time as possible

I figure if I use it, it will not feel strange when I am at the track. Only times I dont use it is in a case where I would have to over rotate....that is normaly below 5 mph (parking areas)

adg44

You're going to get different answers from different people about this. I learned at my HPDE back in the day to shuffle, so that's what I have done since. If I'm approaching a turn, I'll adjust my hands accordingly so that I won't need to shuffle much.

Do whatever is most comfortable for you.

- Anthony

himself

I run 9-3 for the track. No shuffle steering as there aren't any corners on the tracks I drive that require it. I do shuffle when I have a tire blow out.

On the street [to and from work] I usually drive with 1 hand doh!

-td










you can mess your car up in this complex [start at around 5:15]

jerome951

I can keep my hands at 9-3 for every track I drive on (I don't auto-x).

One thing I have noticed from instructing a couple drivers who shuffle steered (i.e. constantly make small hand position adjustments through the turn; not just repositioning the hands once before a turn) is that the steering inputs tend to be somewhat less smooth than keeping ones hands still. I guess this is because the hand remaining on the wheel slightly changes force on the wheel (either more or less) when the other hand is removed. While not an issue at 8/10ths or below, it can create handling issues at the limit of adhesion, especially in the wet.

springgeyser

9 and 3 position for DE and AX. Zaccone method in AX on tighter turns in most cases. Shuffle steer corrrections only when I get in serious trouble.

I do have the pleasure of watching Zaccone drive in our region in his amazing 911.

LJpete

For HPDE's at the track, I'm 9 & 3. Vary rarely, do I need to shuffle. At autocross, I shuffle steer as the more dramatic turns require that much input.

smackboy1

How does Terry Zaccone himself steer? Does he always use his namesake method?

Ahmet

There are lots of people with different opinions on this. I do a "slight" shuffle steer most of the time. I also drift a fair bit, where one has to move their hands off the wheel, so it may just be habit for me.

Here's the video that I believe the original poster is talking about -note that quality is poor for both of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7yhiUNTC-Y
that was on a wet track pushing hard, below is the same track next session (not completely dry, but generally more consistent grip);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkPdMI9XxU

BTW, himself- that's cool that you have a video of your reaction to the tire blow out. It's interesting to see how one reacts to a surprise requiring such major/quick input.

springgeyser

Great AX book by Henry Watts termed it 'Zaccone' after Terry Zaccone's steering style. "Solo Racing". My title could be a off since I haven't reread it for a few years now.

He a down to earth easy going person that shows up at all the PCA GGR AX events. I believe his car was even in Excellence according to my friends.

knfeparty

Depends on the car. In my 325 I never felt the need to leave 9 and 3 on the track but in the 944 it was necessary. For autocross there are a lot of elements where it is totally necessary to shuffle but for slaloms I'll just keep 9 and 3.

my 0.02