Long overdue - engine teardown pics of my turbo (non 996)
05-02-2009, 11:21 PM
#46
wow big project, time for a big bore kit and a set of ported heads. If you need any manuals let me know I think I have a 930 tear down and rebuild book in pdf. Thats the reason I like my push rod motors, ineffiect as hell but a push rod is a great fusable link.................
05-03-2009, 11:49 PM
#47
Race Car
Thread Starter
wow big project, time for a big bore kit and a set of ported heads. If you need any manuals let me know I think I have a 930 tear down and rebuild book in pdf. Thats the reason I like my push rod motors, ineffiect as hell but a push rod is a great fusable link.................
Thanks for the offer for the manual, I have every 911 manual in pdf on my computer already (thank you internet! hehe).
Regarding pushrod motors, it kills me that I could rebuild an old V8 in hours and know it will take weeks or months for this motor (not to mention 1000's of dollars vs. 100's of dollars). But, it should be worth it if I dont break a ring and the rings seat the first time out.
05-04-2009, 01:22 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
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"But, it should be worth it if I dont break a ring and the rings seat the first time out"
So true once I forgot to stagger the oil ring and another is I used chrome rings for longevity, but they took about 2 weeks to break in. Just get a good hone and good temps at breakin then cross your fingers.
So true once I forgot to stagger the oil ring and another is I used chrome rings for longevity, but they took about 2 weeks to break in. Just get a good hone and good temps at breakin then cross your fingers.
05-04-2009, 11:08 AM
#50
Race Car
Thread Starter
"But, it should be worth it if I dont break a ring and the rings seat the first time out"
So true once I forgot to stagger the oil ring and another is I used chrome rings for longevity, but they took about 2 weeks to break in. Just get a good hone and good temps at breakin then cross your fingers.
So true once I forgot to stagger the oil ring and another is I used chrome rings for longevity, but they took about 2 weeks to break in. Just get a good hone and good temps at breakin then cross your fingers.
And ol' aircraft mechanic told me that on his farm, he would put Comet in the spark plug holes (of his tractors that he rebuilt) and that the abrasiveness of the Comet would seat the rings.
Needless to say, I never have nor never will try and do that. But, it may work!
Yeah, no kidding. I have read the indexing of the cams about 5 times preparing for actually doing the job.
05-04-2009, 12:25 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
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"Chrome rings? What was the material of the bores? Tungsten?!?!"
It was my first car a Chev "corvair" hey don't laugh... it really was a piece of crap I think I pushed it more then I drove it. The rings where called Chrome Moly and not sure of what the jugs where made of. What I did not know at the time was the whole engine only lasted a few weeks when it ran right so kinda defeated the purpose of the chrome rings. Some of are family was made up of farmers and I had and relative come over and tell me that he substituted a coke cans for the main bearings for his tractor. Well I tried it and it worked!!! as long as you kept the RPM below 50 
GOD I love the smell of burnt coke cans in the morning. 
It was my first car a Chev "corvair" hey don't laugh... it really was a piece of crap I think I pushed it more then I drove it. The rings where called Chrome Moly and not sure of what the jugs where made of. What I did not know at the time was the whole engine only lasted a few weeks when it ran right so kinda defeated the purpose of the chrome rings. Some of are family was made up of farmers and I had and relative come over and tell me that he substituted a coke cans for the main bearings for his tractor. Well I tried it and it worked!!!
as long as you kept the RPM below 50 GOD I love the smell of burnt coke cans in the morning.
05-04-2009, 12:46 PM
#52
Race Car
Thread Starter
"Chrome rings? What was the material of the bores? Tungsten?!?!"
It was my first car a Chev "corvair" hey don't laugh... it really was a piece of crap I think I pushed it more then I drove it. The rings where called Chrome Moly and not sure of what the jugs where made of. What I did not know at the time was the whole engine only lasted a few weeks when it ran right so kinda defeated the purpose of the chrome rings. Some of are family was made up of farmers and I had and relative come over and tell me that he substituted a coke cans for the main bearings for his tractor. Well I tried it and it worked!!! as long as you kept the RPM below 50 GOD I love the smell of burnt coke cans in the morning.
It was my first car a Chev "corvair" hey don't laugh... it really was a piece of crap I think I pushed it more then I drove it. The rings where called Chrome Moly and not sure of what the jugs where made of. What I did not know at the time was the whole engine only lasted a few weeks when it ran right so kinda defeated the purpose of the chrome rings. Some of are family was made up of farmers and I had and relative come over and tell me that he substituted a coke cans for the main bearings for his tractor. Well I tried it and it worked!!!
as long as you kept the RPM below 50 GOD I love the smell of burnt coke cans in the morning. Wow, is all I have to say to the coke cans....
05-04-2009, 05:29 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Wow Mother I have heard the coke can legend more than once, I can't believe you actually tried it and it worked!
I think modern moly rings are a little better than they used to be (they used to pour pure molybdenum into the face, now they vaporize it and plate it somehow, apparently they don't eat through iron as badly this way!), but I think the nickel/silicon etc in the 911 bores/liners might not like. I actually only remember there being iron, moly, and chrome rings for the old american iron, not actually sure what differentiates a chromoly ring from a moly ring. Is the first ring chrome and the second ring moly? What are the standard 911 rings made of? Do the turbos have anything special (aside from bore diameter)? There's 3 per cylinder in the 911 right?
Anyway, for Cory: since Brad seems to be in agreement on you boring over (glad to see you back posting here btw), check this out: http://www.lnengineering.com/911.html
3.7L! Cory, That's a nice odd number. Don't ask me where you get a head gasket or sealing. 8.0 compression for turbo applications. Imagine how much boost you could run. Money's overrated. You can't drive money!
- Hans
I think modern moly rings are a little better than they used to be (they used to pour pure molybdenum into the face, now they vaporize it and plate it somehow, apparently they don't eat through iron as badly this way!), but I think the nickel/silicon etc in the 911 bores/liners might not like. I actually only remember there being iron, moly, and chrome rings for the old american iron, not actually sure what differentiates a chromoly ring from a moly ring. Is the first ring chrome and the second ring moly? What are the standard 911 rings made of? Do the turbos have anything special (aside from bore diameter)? There's 3 per cylinder in the 911 right?
Anyway, for Cory: since Brad seems to be in agreement on you boring over (glad to see you back posting here btw), check this out: http://www.lnengineering.com/911.html
3.7L! Cory, That's a nice odd number. Don't ask me where you get a head gasket or sealing. 8.0 compression for turbo applications. Imagine how much boost you could run. Money's overrated. You can't drive money!
- Hans
05-04-2009, 05:33 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
Honestly, you cant tear these motors down (or build up) without a manual on your first attempt. I just read word for word and had at it. But, sometimes the wording is vague (in the manual) and you have to just go on instinct from prior knowledge of how things work.
Between you and Hans, y'all are going to make me broke!
Thanks for the offer for the manual, I have every 911 manual in pdf on my computer already (thank you internet! hehe).
Regarding pushrod motors, it kills me that I could rebuild an old V8 in hours and know it will take weeks or months for this motor (not to mention 1000's of dollars vs. 100's of dollars). But, it should be worth it if I dont break a ring and the rings seat the first time out.
Between you and Hans, y'all are going to make me broke!
Thanks for the offer for the manual, I have every 911 manual in pdf on my computer already (thank you internet! hehe).
Regarding pushrod motors, it kills me that I could rebuild an old V8 in hours and know it will take weeks or months for this motor (not to mention 1000's of dollars vs. 100's of dollars). But, it should be worth it if I dont break a ring and the rings seat the first time out.
05-05-2009, 11:18 AM
#56
Race Car
Thread Starter
Wow Mother I have heard the coke can legend more than once, I can't believe you actually tried it and it worked!
I think modern moly rings are a little better than they used to be (they used to pour pure molybdenum into the face, now they vaporize it and plate it somehow, apparently they don't eat through iron as badly this way!), but I think the nickel/silicon etc in the 911 bores/liners might not like. I actually only remember there being iron, moly, and chrome rings for the old american iron, not actually sure what differentiates a chromoly ring from a moly ring. Is the first ring chrome and the second ring moly? What are the standard 911 rings made of? Do the turbos have anything special (aside from bore diameter)? There's 3 per cylinder in the 911 right?
Anyway, for Cory: since Brad seems to be in agreement on you boring over (glad to see you back posting here btw), check this out: http://www.lnengineering.com/911.html
3.7L! Cory, That's a nice odd number. Don't ask me where you get a head gasket or sealing. 8.0 compression for turbo applications. Imagine how much boost you could run. Money's overrated. You can't drive money!
- Hans
I think modern moly rings are a little better than they used to be (they used to pour pure molybdenum into the face, now they vaporize it and plate it somehow, apparently they don't eat through iron as badly this way!), but I think the nickel/silicon etc in the 911 bores/liners might not like. I actually only remember there being iron, moly, and chrome rings for the old american iron, not actually sure what differentiates a chromoly ring from a moly ring. Is the first ring chrome and the second ring moly? What are the standard 911 rings made of? Do the turbos have anything special (aside from bore diameter)? There's 3 per cylinder in the 911 right?
Anyway, for Cory: since Brad seems to be in agreement on you boring over (glad to see you back posting here btw), check this out: http://www.lnengineering.com/911.html
3.7L! Cory, That's a nice odd number. Don't ask me where you get a head gasket or sealing. 8.0 compression for turbo applications. Imagine how much boost you could run. Money's overrated. You can't drive money!
- Hans
There is no such thing as Chrome moly rings, only moly or chrome rings from what I read. Thanks for pointing that out.
But yes, moly rings eat cast iron like a kid eats candy.
It happened to me in my 355 Chevy motor.I never heard of chrome rings unitl now, I didnt know there was such a thing until I went to Federal-Moguls website.
To Mothers point, moly rings in my motors would takes weeks to seat too. Blowby like crazy!
Once I used, I swear to this, a piece of sheetmetal bent around the retainers of my girlfriends CJ-7 to stop rocker arm ticking and it worked forever.Ah yes, shadetree at its best.
05-05-2009, 12:46 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
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HTNY.."Wow Mother I have heard the coke can legend more than once, I can't believe you actually tried it and it worked!" Yes it did temporarily, but the cans where of the highest grade metal back then.
Tippy.. the metal retainer would have been a great idea push rods I could never keep quit for long before adjusting again. Do they still balance and blueprint engines now days? Whats your plan on the rebuild?
Tippy.. the metal retainer would have been a great idea push rods I could never keep quit for long before adjusting again. Do they still balance and blueprint engines now days? Whats your plan on the rebuild?
05-05-2009, 02:00 PM
#59
Race Car
Thread Starter
My plans for the rebuild just consist of replacing all OEM parts. I may port the heads a little on the exhaust side but I have already cut through a head once before. I spent a few hours welding and grinding the port back to original. I sure as hell dont want that happening to my Porsche head.
I hate you.....
427-447 has been enough now! I spanked a Honda 600RR on the highway the night I bent the valves. Im sure if he would of downshifted more, it would of been better but I did get the kill. I let off at 140 MPHand had him by a car length.
05-05-2009, 06:30 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
Oh yes, but since mine doesnt turn up high, I am not balancing.
My plans for the rebuild just consist of replacing all OEM parts. I may port the heads a little on the exhaust side but I have already cut through a head once before. I spent a few hours welding and grinding the port back to original. I sure as hell dont want that happening to my Porsche head.
I hate you..... 427-447 has been enough now!
I spanked a Honda 600RR on the highway the night I bent the valves. Im sure if he would of downshifted more, it would of been better but I did get the kill. I let off at 140 MPHand had him by a car length.
My plans for the rebuild just consist of replacing all OEM parts. I may port the heads a little on the exhaust side but I have already cut through a head once before. I spent a few hours welding and grinding the port back to original. I sure as hell dont want that happening to my Porsche head.
I hate you.....
427-447 has been enough now! I spanked a Honda 600RR on the highway the night I bent the valves. Im sure if he would of downshifted more, it would of been better but I did get the kill. I let off at 140 MPHand had him by a car length.
It just makes my mouth water thinking about a nice wide open motor though. Personally I would have a hard time not going a little lighter in the piston if it wasn't much more money (I think aftermarket lightweight forged and OEM/Mahle pricing is probably close) and maybe a little more stroke in the crank if it's even possible, only because you know that turbo will love a little more swept. But, if you're already limited at the ports then it won't make much of a difference, and maybe you're better off with a heavier piston if you're running a ton of boost already. With a turbo, you'll see some results with a little port and polish so that's definitely smart thinking. BTW I was reminded today that US spec 3.2s ran lower compression heads from the factory (9.5 versus like 10.3 RoW), which you might want to look into before you build up.
Either way you'll still be trashing 600s above 120mph and probably anyone else without ***** the size of church bells and a drag bar trailing him.