I drove a '78 Targa today
04-06-2009, 01:26 PM
#16
Drifting
A friend/neighbor of mine is thinking about buying it - the PO loaned it to him for the weekend to check out.
The car is 30 years old, and had it's rough edges, paint issues, rattles. The interior is so bare bones it's wild. No power steering or brakes. You literally have to stand on the pedal to get the car to slow down! The shifter throw is so long, I thought I was in gear, only to find I had another 6 inches to go. Embarrassing at a light! The view from the driver seat reminded me of driving a VW bus - all the square window frames and strange antique corner windows. But get on the gas and that air cooled 3.0 really screams! Keeping it at 4k-5k rpm is a blast, especially with the Targa top off. I can see why people love the old air cooled engines.
Fun to drive once in a while, but I'll stick to my comfortable 300 hp, thank you!
The car is 30 years old, and had it's rough edges, paint issues, rattles. The interior is so bare bones it's wild. No power steering or brakes. You literally have to stand on the pedal to get the car to slow down! The shifter throw is so long, I thought I was in gear, only to find I had another 6 inches to go. Embarrassing at a light! The view from the driver seat reminded me of driving a VW bus - all the square window frames and strange antique corner windows. But get on the gas and that air cooled 3.0 really screams! Keeping it at 4k-5k rpm is a blast, especially with the Targa top off. I can see why people love the old air cooled engines.
Fun to drive once in a while, but I'll stick to my comfortable 300 hp, thank you!
04-06-2009, 01:36 PM
#17
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Interesting, I'll have my friend look into that. He's having a PPI done by his cousin who happens to be a Porsche mechanic! Another odd thing, one of the front rotors "caught a rock" between pad and rotor, and it has a deep gauge in it. Does that mean he needs a new (or new) front rotors?
04-06-2009, 01:37 PM
#18
Drifting
I agree on the performance comment - my 944's were extremely fun to drive, and were slow by today's standards. I do need the comfort factor. Old fun cars are a PITA to live with! Sure, the engines sound great and the cars are fun. But roll down windows, no (or lame) air conditioning, no power steering, no power adjustable seats, no cup holders (oh, wait, I don't have cup holders), makes for an uncomfortable trip!
With the 996, you have the comfort, and great performance / fun. You just don't have the bare-bones thrills (or air cooling).
With the 996, you have the comfort, and great performance / fun. You just don't have the bare-bones thrills (or air cooling).
Hour after hour in our '78 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, Targa top stowed and the Kenwood turned up above the wind noise.
Hour after hour in our '01 C4 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, all closed up, A/C, etc, etc.
No comparison, might as well have been, SHOULD have been, in our LS400 on that latter trip.
'01 can be, IS, lots of fun on the track, but the '78 was ALWAYS FUN...!!
Still not sure whether or not to convert the '01 to a T-top.
04-06-2009, 01:40 PM
#19
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Agree completely. I still regret selling my '87. Don't get me wrong - I really like my 996 and performance-wise it's no contest, but the older 911s had that intangible something that made them unique.
04-06-2009, 02:48 PM
#20
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Comfort...??
Hour after hour in our '78 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, Targa top stowed and the Kenwood turned up above the wind noise.
Hour after hour in our '01 C4 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, all closed up, A/C, etc, etc.
No comparison, might as well have been, SHOULD have been, in our LS400 on that latter trip.
'01 can be, IS, lots of fun on the track, but the '78 was ALWAYS FUN...!!
Still not sure whether or not to convert the '01 to a T-top.
Hour after hour in our '78 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, Targa top stowed and the Kenwood turned up above the wind noise.
Hour after hour in our '01 C4 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, all closed up, A/C, etc, etc.
No comparison, might as well have been, SHOULD have been, in our LS400 on that latter trip.
'01 can be, IS, lots of fun on the track, but the '78 was ALWAYS FUN...!!
Still not sure whether or not to convert the '01 to a T-top.
04-06-2009, 03:21 PM
#21
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Comfort...??
Hour after hour in our '78 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, Targa top stowed and the Kenwood turned up above the wind noise.
Hour after hour in our '01 C4 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, all closed up, A/C, etc, etc.
No comparison, might as well have been, SHOULD have been, in our LS400 on that latter trip.
'01 can be, IS, lots of fun on the track, but the '78 was ALWAYS FUN...!!
Still not sure whether or not to convert the '01 to a T-top.
Hour after hour in our '78 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, Targa top stowed and the Kenwood turned up above the wind noise.
Hour after hour in our '01 C4 at 100+ mph across UT, WY, NB, KS, all closed up, A/C, etc, etc.
No comparison, might as well have been, SHOULD have been, in our LS400 on that latter trip.
'01 can be, IS, lots of fun on the track, but the '78 was ALWAYS FUN...!!
Still not sure whether or not to convert the '01 to a T-top.
996 is great for daily driving, but I honestly never minded not having automatic/power everything.
Nowadays, I don't like going on even small road trips without my GPS. We get so used to modern comforts and conveniences, that suddenly being without them is so horrible. What did we do without the internet?!?! Cell phones (remember having to stop at pay phones? OMG!) Auto climate control?!?! Road noise is a terrible thing to bear now. Gotta have power steering or the world will blow up.
All the extras start to dull the senses and get us further from the actual experience of driving. Cars feel so similar now when you are just cruising down the highway - they are all quiet and comfy and have all the amenities.
Sure, I like to have that stuff when I'm commuting back and forth to work, but it's not quite as fun as it used to be - but it IS more comfy and quiet.
04-06-2009, 03:30 PM
#22
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Completely agree with this.
996 is great for daily driving, but I honestly never minded not having automatic/power everything.
Nowadays, I don't like going on even small road trips without my GPS. We get so used to modern comforts and conveniences, that suddenly being without them is so horrible. What did we do without the internet?!?! Cell phones (remember having to stop at pay phones? OMG!) Auto climate control?!?! Road noise is a terrible thing to bear now. Gotta have power steering or the world will blow up.
All the extras start to dull the senses and get us further from the actual experience of driving. Cars feel so similar now when you are just cruising down the highway - they are all quiet and comfy and have all the amenities.
Sure, I like to have that stuff when I'm commuting back and forth to work, but it's not quite as fun as it used to be - but it IS more comfy and quiet.
996 is great for daily driving, but I honestly never minded not having automatic/power everything.
Nowadays, I don't like going on even small road trips without my GPS. We get so used to modern comforts and conveniences, that suddenly being without them is so horrible. What did we do without the internet?!?! Cell phones (remember having to stop at pay phones? OMG!) Auto climate control?!?! Road noise is a terrible thing to bear now. Gotta have power steering or the world will blow up.
All the extras start to dull the senses and get us further from the actual experience of driving. Cars feel so similar now when you are just cruising down the highway - they are all quiet and comfy and have all the amenities.
Sure, I like to have that stuff when I'm commuting back and forth to work, but it's not quite as fun as it used to be - but it IS more comfy and quiet.
04-06-2009, 03:59 PM
#23
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Apples to oranges I guess. You have an old 911, you also have repair bills, worn parts that need upgrading, etc. I did that with 2 944s, and bought a modern 911 to avoid all the upgrading and repairs of the older cars, having been there done that. Maybe it comes with being 44?
I think it has nothing to do with age, it's all personal preference. Some guys like the rawness of the older cars, some gravitate to the creature comforts and refined nature of the newer cars.. some appreciate both.
For some the upgrading and "tinkering" is part of the hobby.
Remember, When the 80's Carrera was new people thought it was too heavy and "refined" compared to the older cars, some still do, when the 964 came out there was outrage and the much coveted 993 even took heat.
04-06-2009, 04:39 PM
#24
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I think it has nothing to do with age, it's all personal preference. Some guys like the rawness of the older cars, some gravitate to the creature comforts and refined nature of the newer cars.. some appreciate both.
For some the upgrading and "tinkering" is part of the hobby.
Remember, When the 80's Carrera was new people thought it was too heavy and "refined" compared to the older cars, some still do, when the 964 came out there was outrage and the much coveted 993 even took heat.
For some the upgrading and "tinkering" is part of the hobby.
Remember, When the 80's Carrera was new people thought it was too heavy and "refined" compared to the older cars, some still do, when the 964 came out there was outrage and the much coveted 993 even took heat.
04-06-2009, 05:14 PM
#25
I have yet to drive an older 911 but from what I'm hearing I imagine it must be pretty close to driving experience/involvement nirvana. My 99 is wonderful in the department compared to newer cars that are available today. I can only imagine what the older cars must be like.
On a day to day basis, I'm not sure I'd like an older car too much but on the track or autocross, they seem like they would be a ton of fun. Unfortunately, I only know owners with 996's and 997's so I'm not sure when I'll be able to try one out.
I would love a 964 RS America as I have always loved the look and it would be a nice mix of some modern driving behavior but great involvement and feedback. I can totally see how the older car would be more fun to drive at slower speeds where the 996 is actually quite boring until pushed. Unfortunately, when pushing a 996 to it's limits, you are approaching go directly to jail speeds. My 996 is at times quite frustrating to drive in traffic as you can't open up the taps and have fun because you can catch up to traffic so quickly when you get an open spot to have some fun. Especially on back road twisties as other people tend to putt along on the best roads to have fun on.
On a day to day basis, I'm not sure I'd like an older car too much but on the track or autocross, they seem like they would be a ton of fun. Unfortunately, I only know owners with 996's and 997's so I'm not sure when I'll be able to try one out.
I would love a 964 RS America as I have always loved the look and it would be a nice mix of some modern driving behavior but great involvement and feedback. I can totally see how the older car would be more fun to drive at slower speeds where the 996 is actually quite boring until pushed. Unfortunately, when pushing a 996 to it's limits, you are approaching go directly to jail speeds. My 996 is at times quite frustrating to drive in traffic as you can't open up the taps and have fun because you can catch up to traffic so quickly when you get an open spot to have some fun. Especially on back road twisties as other people tend to putt along on the best roads to have fun on.
04-06-2009, 05:37 PM
#26
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I have yet to drive an older 911 but from what I'm hearing I imagine it must be pretty close to driving experience/involvement nirvana. My 99 is wonderful in the department compared to newer cars that are available today. I can only imagine what the older cars must be like.
On a day to day basis, I'm not sure I'd like an older car too much but on the track or autocross, they seem like they would be a ton of fun. Unfortunately, I only know owners with 996's and 997's so I'm not sure when I'll be able to try one out.
I would love a 964 RS America as I have always loved the look and it would be a nice mix of some modern driving behavior but great involvement and feedback. I can totally see how the older car would be more fun to drive at slower speeds where the 996 is actually quite boring until pushed. Unfortunately, when pushing a 996 to it's limits, you are approaching go directly to jail speeds. My 996 is at times quite frustrating to drive in traffic as you can't open up the taps and have fun because you can catch up to traffic so quickly when you get an open spot to have some fun. Especially on back road twisties as other people tend to putt along on the best roads to have fun on.
On a day to day basis, I'm not sure I'd like an older car too much but on the track or autocross, they seem like they would be a ton of fun. Unfortunately, I only know owners with 996's and 997's so I'm not sure when I'll be able to try one out.
I would love a 964 RS America as I have always loved the look and it would be a nice mix of some modern driving behavior but great involvement and feedback. I can totally see how the older car would be more fun to drive at slower speeds where the 996 is actually quite boring until pushed. Unfortunately, when pushing a 996 to it's limits, you are approaching go directly to jail speeds. My 996 is at times quite frustrating to drive in traffic as you can't open up the taps and have fun because you can catch up to traffic so quickly when you get an open spot to have some fun. Especially on back road twisties as other people tend to putt along on the best roads to have fun on.
04-06-2009, 07:36 PM
#27
Race Car
Did you have a lot of fun riding go-karts as a kid? Then you would love older 911's (89 and older).
Same experience with more power!
An '87 Carrera is as quick as a 996 Tip!
Same experience with more power!
An '87 Carrera is as quick as a 996 Tip!
04-06-2009, 08:44 PM
#28
Oh yeah, the older cars... I had an 82 Targa SC and I was immediately amazed at the difference in driving. The old cars demanded your attention all the time. The new ones, well, as previously said, they're so comfortable in comparison until you let them out.
Having said that, for long trips, I love my 996 an older turbo would sure be a ton of fun in the city though....
Having said that, for long trips, I love my 996 an older turbo would sure be a ton of fun in the city though....
