Hi,

Found a good deal on a 2002 carerra with 82,000 miles.

I own a 930 so Porsches are not new to me or anything...

Is the rear main seal issue likely to show up at any time, even after 80K miles?

Also is there much evidence that these cars will hold up over 100,000 miles?

I have heard all the horror stories, now I would like some real owner's insight into this.

Is this car going to self destruct or can I drive it another 100,000 miles? The car is in great condition currently.

Thanks, and yes I know how to use the search function and will be doing that shortly.

 

Do PPI.... if its golden. Then yes 200k is very possible. These cars are nearing its 10 year life cycle and are starting to show how dependable these cars really are...

here is a high mile role call in Renntech:

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...howtopic=14151

 

Thanks for the link!

Is the rear main seal something that will eventually be likely to get worse over time? I know that they seem to fail randomly at any mileage but I specifically am more interested in whether that would become more and more likely over 100k mileage due to the nature of what causes those failures?

 

The rear main seal leak is just that, a leaky seal, not something that results in a sudden catastrophic failure. Much of the internet uproar over the RMS issues dates back to the practice Porsche had of replacing motors which had a leaking RMS instead of repairing them (ostensibly for their own analysis of the problem), which led people to equate RMS=engine replacement.

While Porsche's practice of replacing over repairing has changed (you aren't getting a new motor just because you had a leaky seal anymore, you just get a new seal), the perception hasn't.

It's really not that big of a deal. If you see oil under it, replace the seal, won't even cost you an arm and a leg.

I was afraid of buying a 996 without warranty not because of RMS, but because of the possibility of true engine failure, particularly in these cars intermediate shaft failure. So I bought mine CPO ('02 as well). Different time, different market, but I still would rather have a warranty to cover powertrain failure on a used 996 or 997, the replacement motors are not as cheap as they used to be.

Best,
Hans
Metro NY PCA

 

I just bought a 2002 C4S last month, and I ended up having the rear main seal and intermediate shaft seal replaced after the PPI. The vehicle had 72K on it when I bought it. The dealer charged roughly $1,400 to do both, and now it is as good as new! Don't let the RMS issue scare you away.

 

The intermediate shaft seal/failure is something I actually never heard of. What does that shaft do in the engine exactly?

Can I check these seals for oil myself by looking under the engine...if not than how does the shop do it?

Thanks!

 

The RMS leak is generally visible with an inspection, from what I hear. The intermediate shaft seal can be inspected/replaced when the engine is apart to replace the RMS. I think the intermediate shaft seal was only another $75 once they had it all apart.

 

Does replacing the intermediate shaft seal prevent the catastrophic shaft failure, in other words is it a failed intermediate seal that causes the ruin of the intermediate shaft normally or are there other causes?

 

No, it is the IMS bearing failure that causes engine destruction, often from the seal/bearing nuts coming loose. Replacing the seal is just a preventaive that is well worth it while they're in there anyway, but it doesn't guarantee no bearing loss. The bearing would have to be replaced with one of the super heavy duty aftermarket ones to "guearantee" that (there is no actual guarantee, tho, just a great reduction in failure), which normally requires engine dissassembly, not just engine/tranny drop. Big bucks, but cheaper than engine replacement, obviously.

 

The RMS issue can occur at any time, and sometimes twice in the same car. However, it usually declares itself fairly early (ie by 40k miles). It generally gives you warning w/ an oil leak that you can see on the engine or your driveway.

I've read some folks talking about white smoke, but I think that's not really the RMS, but a normal occurrance after driving the car hard and then shutting it down right after. Others can chime in on this one.

Anyway, it's $800 to fix it. Cheap by P-car standards.

Happy Hunting

 

OK here's the deal

The IMS itself doesn't fail. The IMS runs parallel to the crank, and has had a couple of design revisions, the big one in 2002 where the chain drives were changed over from dual to single (which is better, but not perfect, even a 2008 997 with a slightly updated version of the same design suffers from the same failure)

Basically, the intermediate shaft is responsible for driving the oil pump and the timing chains. At the end where the bell housing mounts to the motor, there is a bearing which supports the shaft. A stud goes through this support and is fastened by a nut.

The IMS failure you read about occurs when the stud shears off and the nut, which is now mounted to thin air, falls into the bell housing and rattles around (the "death rattle" you may hear about foretelling an IMS failure). Since the shaft is now unsupported at the rear (bell housing side), it kinda moves around a little in your motor while it spins thousands of times a second, which eventually results in an awful lot of metal winding up in your oil supply, which as anyone can tell you is a surefire way to lose a motor. Of course now that it's floating around a little it's at least possible for one of the chains to come off its teeth, but mostly its the metal thats the problem.

Lastly, a motor can last for quite a while with this stud sheared off, or it can go quickly. So if you hear a rattle, check the oil filter for metal. BTW you can see the nut I mentioned below the rear main seal (with the flywheel removed)

The issue is neither common nor fully mitigated. I personally do not know anyone who has had it happen, but I sure do read about it a lot on the internet

 

Is there anything preventive that can be done, or inspection that can be preformed to help keep this from happening?

 

http://www.flat6innovations.com/shop...cat=377&page=1

IMS Retrofit Kit