I have about 250 miles on the new Sumitomos and some impressions
03-27-2009, 06:09 PM
#16
Addict
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I've had several iterations of Sumitomos. They're rubber, round, go on the wheels and are legal on the street. Beyond that, don't compare them to high performance tires!
I'll give them this, they give plenty of warning with noise, and don't chunk on track. The steering feed back is horrible. PSII is a great tire, the only downside is they're expensive. All tires are a compromise, if you have the money, the PSIIs are the best street tire, in my opinion. Azenis are decent tires to put on track, but noisy on the street. They do great in damp conditions, but hydro planing resistance is poor.
I'll give them this, they give plenty of warning with noise, and don't chunk on track. The steering feed back is horrible. PSII is a great tire, the only downside is they're expensive. All tires are a compromise, if you have the money, the PSIIs are the best street tire, in my opinion. Azenis are decent tires to put on track, but noisy on the street. They do great in damp conditions, but hydro planing resistance is poor.
03-27-2009, 07:07 PM
#17
03-27-2009, 07:32 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
03-27-2009, 08:28 PM
#19
No need for slicks for many, many moons.
03-27-2009, 08:32 PM
#20
Drifting
I've had several iterations of Sumitomos. They're rubber, round, go on the wheels and are legal on the street. Beyond that, don't compare them to high performance tires!
I'll give them this, they give plenty of warning with noise, and don't chunk on track. The steering feed back is horrible. PSII is a great tire, the only downside is they're expensive. All tires are a compromise, if you have the money, the PSIIs are the best street tire, in my opinion. Azenis are decent tires to put on track, but noisy on the street. They do great in damp conditions, but hydro planing resistance is poor.
I'll give them this, they give plenty of warning with noise, and don't chunk on track. The steering feed back is horrible. PSII is a great tire, the only downside is they're expensive. All tires are a compromise, if you have the money, the PSIIs are the best street tire, in my opinion. Azenis are decent tires to put on track, but noisy on the street. They do great in damp conditions, but hydro planing resistance is poor.
I was googling and data-mining Tirerack's numbers when I was tire shopping last month. I posted it to a couple other forums to share the wealth; might as well share it here, too
I bought Star Specs, btw. And they performed awesome at last month's very wet autocross, so I can attest to their rain performance and handling, and have the time slips to back it up. (Was my first autocross on these tires, and my best finish ever by a HUGE margin.)Tirerack testing:
Looking strictly at Tirerack's dry track scores (225/45R17 on a 2008 BMW E90 325i Coupe for the first set of 4 (above), and a 2006 for the others):
8.67 Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1
8.64 Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07
8.64 Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
8.58 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD
8.39 Kumho Ecsta MX Extreme Performance Summer
8.30 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
8.26 Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R
8.24 Sumitomo HTR Z III
8.23 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
8.20 Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position
8.15 Continental ContiSportContact 3
7.96 Yokohama ADVAN Sport
7.46 Hankook Ventus R-S2 Z212
7.23 BFGoodrich g-Force Sport
0.98-0.99g BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD
0.98g (=) Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07
0.98g (-?) Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
0.98g (-?) Kumho Ecsta MX Extreme Performance Summer
0.97g (-?) Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1
0.96g (+?) Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
0.96-0.99g Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R
0.96g (-?) Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
0.95g (+?) Sumitomo HTR Z III
0.95g Hankook Ventus R-S2 Z212
0.94-0.96g Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position
0.94-0.97g Continental ContiSportContact 3
0.92g (+?) Yokohama ADVAN Sport
0.93g BFGoodrich g-Force Sport
Not reviewed:
Falken AZenis RT-615
Nitto 555 extreme
They unfortunately switched cars between the two sets, and tires they tested twice (even on the same car) scored differently in the two tests, but I'm hoping the overall numbers are at least reasonably comparable for a cross comparison. Given the apparent +/- 0.04g margin of error in Tirerack's testing and the 0.04g spread between 11 of the 12, it's hard to really say any of these tires is a clear winner or loser per Tirerack's testing. [I marked (+/-?) where the other tires in the tests did significantly better or worse in the other test, throwing a bit of doubt on how this particular # should be in comparison with the others.] The Neova's did exactly 0.98g in 3 tests on two different cars, though, so they're at least consistent!
Here are the other charts:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=93
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartD...ay.jsp?ttid=107
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartD...ay.jsp?ttid=100
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=71
I found this helpful comparison on the RX-7 club forum from someone who's autocrossed all the top 3 tires. Sadly, not HTR Z III though:
Neova AD07 -- awesome tire. Great dry grip, good wet grip. they wear evenly. they dont get greasy after getting heated up. only problem i have is that they are QUIET!!!! at their limit. I like noise from my tires so that i know when to back off. BONUS -- they smell good when the tires are spinning and the smoke is billowing.
Potenza RE01-r's -- another amazing tire. awesome dry grip (MINUTELY) less than the ad07's. wet grip is a bit better (IMO). a bit noisy during normal driving. they love to talk to you at the limit. they dont smell as good as the neovas. they dont get greasy after getting heated up. BONUS -- tread pattern is wicked !!
Dunlop Z1 Star Specs -- Favorite tire so far. grip as good or better than the above. both wet and dry. they talk at the limit, which i like. they dont get greasy after getting heated up. BONUS -- MUCH cheaper than the ad07s or RE01-rs. i paid 136ish for 245 45 17 and 165 ish for 255 40 17. compare that to over 200 dollars per tire for both the neovas and the potenzas. i have 5 track days and 5 or 6 months of daily driving on them and they still have excellent tread.
Potenza RE01-r's -- another amazing tire. awesome dry grip (MINUTELY) less than the ad07's. wet grip is a bit better (IMO). a bit noisy during normal driving. they love to talk to you at the limit. they dont smell as good as the neovas. they dont get greasy after getting heated up. BONUS -- tread pattern is wicked !!
Dunlop Z1 Star Specs -- Favorite tire so far. grip as good or better than the above. both wet and dry. they talk at the limit, which i like. they dont get greasy after getting heated up. BONUS -- MUCH cheaper than the ad07s or RE01-rs. i paid 136ish for 245 45 17 and 165 ish for 255 40 17. compare that to over 200 dollars per tire for both the neovas and the potenzas. i have 5 track days and 5 or 6 months of daily driving on them and they still have excellent tread.
Street tires I've ran:
[Nitto's as-yet unreleased] NT05 - Best overall. Great grip, very consistent, predictable, crisp and easiest to drive.
Neova AD07 - Great grip, short life, inconsistent and harsh breakaway
RE01R - good grip, lasts well, not much bad to say but not the best.
R1R - good grip, squirmy and inconsistent.
[Nitto's as-yet unreleased] NT05 - Best overall. Great grip, very consistent, predictable, crisp and easiest to drive.
Neova AD07 - Great grip, short life, inconsistent and harsh breakaway
RE01R - good grip, lasts well, not much bad to say but not the best.
R1R - good grip, squirmy and inconsistent.
03-27-2009, 08:54 PM
#21
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Thread Starter
Used to run R comps on my Audi and I haven't yet on the 996 because I wanted to exploit the stock suspension/tires. Now that I have coilovers after 5 years of that, it's time to get back into the groove with better tires, hopefully this summer
04-01-2009, 08:38 PM
#22
Rocky Mountain High
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I just had my Sumis installed at the big Tire Rack store in South Bend, IN.
I agree with the previous posts that they are very quiet, but then again, I'm comparing them to badly worn Pirelli P-Zeros.
We'll see how they do - but so far so good!
I agree with the previous posts that they are very quiet, but then again, I'm comparing them to badly worn Pirelli P-Zeros.
We'll see how they do - but so far so good!
. 
11-05-2009, 03:32 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
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Just replaced ContiSC2's with the Sumitomo HTR Z III's today. Had them balanced with RoadForce.
My old Conti's were aged and worn, so it is such a Huge difference! Quiet, smooth, and steering is completely "shimmer-less". I also noticed the car now doesn't tramline as bad as before on bad roads.
We'll see how I like them after a couple thousand miles down the road.....
My old Conti's were aged and worn, so it is such a Huge difference! Quiet, smooth, and steering is completely "shimmer-less". I also noticed the car now doesn't tramline as bad as before on bad roads.
We'll see how I like them after a couple thousand miles down the road.....
11-05-2009, 09:57 AM
#25
Helo Driver
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Yes, the tires are still quiet. Quieter than the previous Michelins (even when the PS2s were new)
Grip is comparable on the street. Frankly, I don't think i'd ever push to the limit of the tire on the street. That's just asking for trouble without run off room and worse, traffic, if any. I live a stone's throw away from Angeles Crest Highway and I've seen pretty bad accidents up there in the form of spirited driving.
I bought these knowing full well that when I go to the track, i'll be running track tires, so the money you save here can be applied to a better performing tire specific to the application.
Wet performance is tough to gauge (although we did have some rain) because when it rained, the tires were really new so I wasn't going to push it there either. Grip in the wet seems reasonable.
Road feel is a bit muted due to the comfort that this tire seems to provide. Sidewall isn't soooo stiff that it's jarring. Responsiveness seems to be ok. Acceptable to me and I would think that I drive the car pretty hard.
Braking is tough for me to say because I run track pads on the street with the full complement of bus squeal. I've been too lazy to change those out and thus, the pads never get hot enough for me to really see if the tires provide the confidence in going deep.
That is all.
It is worth it to get these tires.
Grip is comparable on the street. Frankly, I don't think i'd ever push to the limit of the tire on the street. That's just asking for trouble without run off room and worse, traffic, if any. I live a stone's throw away from Angeles Crest Highway and I've seen pretty bad accidents up there in the form of spirited driving.
I bought these knowing full well that when I go to the track, i'll be running track tires, so the money you save here can be applied to a better performing tire specific to the application.
Wet performance is tough to gauge (although we did have some rain) because when it rained, the tires were really new so I wasn't going to push it there either. Grip in the wet seems reasonable.
Road feel is a bit muted due to the comfort that this tire seems to provide. Sidewall isn't soooo stiff that it's jarring. Responsiveness seems to be ok. Acceptable to me and I would think that I drive the car pretty hard.
Braking is tough for me to say because I run track pads on the street with the full complement of bus squeal. I've been too lazy to change those out and thus, the pads never get hot enough for me to really see if the tires provide the confidence in going deep.
That is all.
It is worth it to get these tires.
11-05-2009, 11:26 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
I have had mine for about 5 months and several thousand miles. I think they are a great tire for the street. I also drove the twisted sisters (FM335, FM336 and FM337) with them in the wet and they did great. I have had them well up into the triple digits too. I would buy them again at this point.
Last edited by function12; 11-05-2009 at 05:50 PM.
11-05-2009, 02:37 PM
#27
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Thread Starter
Ok, since you want an update.....The car has been on the track with the sumitomos. While not race rubber, they were 'OK' as in, I didn't kill myself.
The tire still performs admirably day to day. There is no added tire noise. Comfort level is fine with my coilovers set fairly rigid.
I went to Laguna Seca and got another set of hollow spokes and Toyo R888 race rubber. While the Toyos were new and weren't heat cycled in, I got in one session at 1:54 before my tire picked up a damn key, rendering the tires useless for the weekend. I had to swap in the Sumitomos to continue on.
I figured, I'd just try to get the best time possible and wound up on the second day at 1:50. Almost went 1:49 which I think is the absolute limit for my car with this rubber. So, they hold up ok. They're not TOO great in giving you that secure feeling on turn in frankly at the limit, but that's ok. That's all I have to say as I don't have wet weather experiences yet.
The tire still performs admirably day to day. There is no added tire noise. Comfort level is fine with my coilovers set fairly rigid.
I went to Laguna Seca and got another set of hollow spokes and Toyo R888 race rubber. While the Toyos were new and weren't heat cycled in, I got in one session at 1:54 before my tire picked up a damn key, rendering the tires useless for the weekend. I had to swap in the Sumitomos to continue on.
I figured, I'd just try to get the best time possible and wound up on the second day at 1:50. Almost went 1:49 which I think is the absolute limit for my car with this rubber. So, they hold up ok. They're not TOO great in giving you that secure feeling on turn in frankly at the limit, but that's ok. That's all I have to say as I don't have wet weather experiences yet.
11-06-2009, 09:20 AM
#30
Poseur
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