AudiOn19s

That or just find a '99 or '04 that already has it. Mine's still in good working order at 50K miles though some have had issues with the stock unit not lasting very long for them.

The '04 anniversary cars have both LSD and the X-51 power package (345hp). LiveNupe has a great examle for sale here right now for only $36K.

medtech

I have driven both and have to say that if this car is going to be your DD, you should go with the Pcar. Z06 is like driving a buckboard. I'm sure it's fun on a track, but daily driving on the streets, no.

I would also suggest Carmax. You'll get a better deal than the Stealership. Plus you might be able to dirve both cars in one day.

striker27

Yeah I did give up on the whole 996 water cooled Porsche thing. It was just costing me too much to use as a daily driver and it was pretty bad on reliability as well. I understand the first one being a salvage and all but the second I paid a good dollar for and was not very rewarding. I went with one of these instead. It is a workin progress and needs some TLC though!!





Also managed to pick up a 07 Corvette Z06 off a client who was unable to pay my bill before Christmas!!!

Will get some pics when it warms up. I cant even open my garage door too much damn ice and snow out side!!!

OH yeah!!! But what can I say times and attitudes change!!!!

Dave-ROR

Drove both yesterday, here's my thoughts on them..

2001 996: This car was in decent shape as far as the body is concerned, and had some issues (leaking valve cover gaskets, needed a recent service (75k I'd guess since the car had 76k on it) and something else. The valve covers were not a slight leak, oil was almost literally running down the motor and onto the exhaust manifolds on both sides, leaving puddles of oil underneath the car. The engine bottom of the engine was covered in oil and grime, maybe a RMS too? Interior wise, I like the 996 interior more than the previous years, the updated gauge cluster is refreshing compared to the older AC cars IMO. Seats were nice, ac worked decent, certainly well enough in the 50-60 degree weather yesterday. The car drove great, I love the suspension (stock) compared to the 964's, even compared to the 964 RS America. Brakes felt great, steering was excellent in feel, weighting and communication, turn in was quite nice, shifter was good (not as good as the S2000, but I've yet to find a shifter that feels as nice and positive as the S2000...). I really enjoyed driving it, even just going down the highway at a steady pace. There definately is something about a 911 that you don't find in other cars. Hands down the better car to drive. Power was fine IMO, lacking compared to the Z06, but it was good enough in my opinion. The mechanical problems somewhat removed the enjoyment of driving the car since the little rattle on startup, all that oil leaking, etc was in the back of my head when I was driving it.... obviously I didn't get a chance to really test it's handling...

2003 Z06: Unlike the Porsche dealer, the Chevy dealer actually fixes problems they detect with their used cars, it was actually in the shop getting the passenger side door lock/window controller replaced when I got there to look at the car. They had to order the part so they gave me the keys to take it out. This car also may have had slightly bent shift forks (a known issue on some Z06's) as the shifter was tighter, especially around 5th and 6th, than other Z06's I've driven before. The power and torque that the Z06 has is just.. well.. you feel like a kid driving the thing. Not really sure how to describe it, it just made my laugh when I would beat on the car. On the other hand, when I wasn't beating on the car, GM's lack of attention to details really came out. The shifter isn't great, not very positive at all (again thiis one may have been a bad example here), the steering lacks feel, bumps are transmitted through the steering, but with a weird delay and a feeling of something being loose almost. Brakes are very strong, but feel and modulation weren't as good as the 996. Interior.. well that one's obvious enough. The interior isn't absolutely horrible but it's not exactly one of the cars strong points. Seats are bleh and I noticed weird things, like my wallet in my back pocket, rattles (which according to a friend I had with me were also present in the 996, but I guess I was more focused on driving to notice), etc. instead of enjoying the car. The Z06 is an absolute blast when you are beating on it, but driving it at a normal pace and in a normal street environment you really pay attention to other parts of the car.. and it's a let down in a way. I'm not sure my garage is actually wide enough to hold the Z06 and the race car.....

I'm not going to eliminate the Z06 quite yet, but the 996 is definately where I'm leaning currently.

mike1111

I have had all cars you are talking about. One thing to remember these are all opinions, but for me I tracked my Wife's s2000 an 05 and enjoyed it but lacked power, the corvette which was stock felt light at rear end on track but fun on street. My 01 996 which is set up for track has the right amount of power for me to enjoy the twisties but harsh on street. I guess the best of both worlds would be another gt3 but I was always worried of what could go wrong so I never drove hard and got tired of taping everything. For the money 996 is right for me.

Turbodan

most times that I have been to track with vettes at least one of them seems to break. I am not bashing these cars...just questioning their reliability. also build quality and safety I don't think are comparable.

steve germany

I agree. I sold my C6 to buy the C4S. The Vette was a summer only vehicle and I've always hated putting my toys away!

Ahmet

If you're looking at a z06, you ought to consider the later year models. The changes in the shocks/springs make the rear end somewhat more planted and a bit more controllable especially at higher speeds with small drift angles. The 996 is more fun to drive fast, the z06 is more fun to act stupid with. Stability in competition mode in the z06 is really quite good, though it sounds like you wouldn't utilize it much.

Tippy

I havent read through all the post so sorry if I repeat some things.

First, you cant just replace the IMS bearings unless you have lots of Porsche tooling and time or a fairly large amount of cash to pay Raby or some other shop.

Second, the Z06 is numb but very powerful. I never tracked, only auto-crossed, but I would take the 996 for the track because you know when you are going to lose it. The Z06, hell no. You'd be in the grass before it let you know it was going to let go.

But, for the C5 Z06 is really reliable and cheap to fix, not the P-car.

sjfehr

I'm confused- I thought the consensus was that given the choice of a Porsche or a Vette, the only true answer was to buy both?

shustermeister

I had both 04 Z06 (last C5) and 02 C4S.
The Z06 was incredible at the track, very reliable once I made a few minor mods, and was pretty much an even match for 996 GT3 when running comparable tires and brake pads. Ran at VIR, CMP, and Sebring. That said, it needed real racing seats (factory ones had no lateral support), needed to change brake rotors for almost every event (though they were only 25/each at NAPA), needed to wrap tie rod ends with heat reflective tape (heat from brakes would melt the rubber covers on the ends), and it was not very friendly as a DD. It has almost no trunk space, and the quality of the interior/switchgear was no better than low-end Chevy. Excellent torque out of corners, handling was not bad, though a switch to the Chevy T1 suspension package is worth several seconds a lap if you get serious. Steering feel doesn't compare to 996.
My C4S was a wonderful road car, but I never really enjoyed tracking it. The steering was great, had more tire than the car needed for its power, and the brakes were just awesome. I was running it completely stock except for PF97 brake pads, and it just didn't compare to running the Z06 on track. Could be if I'd gone to track tires and seats/harnesses, I might have enjoyed it more, but it just didn't jazz me as much. It seemed heavy and was a different kind of fast (more up top), so it didn't get my adrenaline going as much.
I've also tracked front-drive Acuras, Subaru STi's, and 951's. The vette trumped them all for all-out, ***** out track fun. I still loved the 996 more than all of them as an all-arounder - so much better looking and more refined...
If you can afford it, the C6 Z06 makes the C5 Z06 seem slow by comparison. I got to drive an early production model when instructing a GM engineer at the first National Corvette Museum event at CMP a few years ago. The C6 Z06, with run flat tires and stock pads, running only about 80%, absolutely smoked my C5 Z06 on slicks and real brake pads running at 95%. I've heard pushing the C6 Z06 to the limit can get pretty hairy, but I didn't have to drive it that hard to be impressed.

Dave-ROR

I go to CMP fairly often, what are you running there these days? You going to be at the LeMons race in April?

I could definately see the Z06 being the faster track car and superior autocross car, but I like using the underdog sometimes too...

This all may be moot as it turns out, I may pick up a 97 Integra Type-R if I can get it cheap enough to either part out or build into a Honda Challenge car then sell it, I'm hoping to get the car for less than 4k and have all the parts in the garage to finish it.. so it'll take up some money for now and more importantly garage space...

Either way I suspect it'll take me months to find the right car anyways.

Shuster: Have you instructed anyone with a 996 C2? Curious as to your thoughts on how it would be on track vs the C4S.

Thanks.

shustermeister

I've been in several 996 C2's on the track and they definitely felt different than the C4S. It is really tough to compare apples to apples, as my car was on stock crappy Pirelli Pzero street tires, totally stock suspension, and the other 996s I've been in were on R-compound tires and in some cases GT3 suspension components. Also, I found during my search for a 996 that each one seems to drive a little bit differently than the last - which I think many 996 owners will probably agree with.
I didn't have the chance to instruct a full weekend in anyone else's 996, so my comments are from limited C2 experience, a few dozen laps at best.
The C4S all wheel drive was not the best I've driven, sometimes it seemed to kick the front grip up a little abruptly, wasn't seamless. The car was pretty stable though a bit of understeer as expected. I actually prefer the STi, with its ability to vary the front/rear drive bias electronically.
My C4S was meant as a dual-purpose DD/track car, and I what I really learned is that while I loved the 996, it didn't suit me for both purposes. It is very hard if not impossible to find a true compromise. For track car, I'd want all the safety equipment and go-fast stuff. That doesn't translate well to street car/DD.

MJBird993

Well I had a 2001 Z06 for two years and I've owned my '02 996 for 2.5 years. I've put twice the miles on the 996 than I did on the Z06, although as a cab I've not had it on the track. The Z06 was on the track quite a bit.

The Corvette is, without a doubt, the most bang for the buck. Great performance, very nice handling, decent brakes right out of the box. With a decent alignment and a larger rear sway to take out some of the understeer and some race brake pads it does very well on the track. Steering feedback is, well, there is no steering feedback. That's the biggest drawback of the car.

Oh, and it's a Chevy. My car had recalls for the brake booster, the seat, the steering column lock and something else that I've forgotten. The steering column lock failed shortly after the recall and Chevy told me to eat it. Tires are pricey, but then again, they are for the Porsche as well. Fit and finish sucks ***. Piston slap and oil burning issues made me question Chevrolet's commitment to excellence.

The Porsche is the culmination of 40+ years of improving a really stupid design with the engine in the wrong place. Everything they've done is to compensate for that bad decision. However, everything else makes it worth-while. The steering feedback is incomparable. The stock factory brakes are incredible, the fit and finish is excellent and the refinement of the drivetrain is exceptional. Wonderful clutch, nice shifter, and in my experience, very reliable cars as well.

I've had my 964 and 993 on the track, and these cars are a blast to drive. Just when you think you've gone as fast as you can, you learn something new about the car and you go a little faster. Until oversteer catches up with you and punts you off into the grass. Hence my earlier comment about that engine in the wrong place.

Porsche parts cost more (although Chevy is no bargain) but I suspect that you will need more Chevy parts.

Both cars can be bought cheap these days. When I decided to sell the Z06, I couldn't give it away.

Lots of people complain about the horrible seats in the Chevy but for me, I actually found them more comfortable for long trips than the Porsche. Both cars' stock seats are inadequate for the track.

As for maintenance, you will find a lot more knowledge and help on Rennlist for your car than you will on C5forum or other Corvette forums. Unless you need to ask about the best wax or which chrome wheels look better on the car.

HTH,

Michael