IMS Failure - Advice Needed - UPDATE 11Dec08
12-10-2008, 06:50 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Sorry
What's the meaning of BS?
thanks
2000-2500 $ is a cheap solution if you are avoiding a IMS failure which would end in a catastrophic blown engine
Nice news the IMS retrofit
What's the meaning of BS?
thanks
2000-2500 $ is a cheap solution if you are avoiding a IMS failure which would end in a catastrophic blown engine
Nice news the IMS retrofit
12-10-2008, 07:10 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
12-10-2008, 09:44 PM
#35
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Damn. All this talk about IMS failure at low miles, and my extended after market warranty that I have had ZERO problems to use it on - expires in a few months!
12-10-2008, 10:25 PM
#36
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Problem solved!
You are Welcome!
Last edited by gota911; 12-11-2008 at 01:45 AM.
12-11-2008, 03:44 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Porsche did a complete demostration how far they can go with the M96/97 engines... The only important thing for them is the profit = MONEY-MONEY-MONEY $$$$$$$$. The customers are in second or third place.
Do you really guys think that they have build a high endurance and troublefree new engine?
We know how Porsche works and "how important" we are for them ...
It's incredible to build this BS M96 with the internal failures for a long decade without solving the problems. The first error was the dry sump, then the way to build these engines, but the worst stuff has been the response to all the clients who had suffered issues. They have a very profitable department just ready to rebuild blown engines instead of solve the problem cutting the root.
I always will clap all the private initiatives like Raby, Autofarm or others which are fighting against the gigant.
12-11-2008, 10:26 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
You hit in the nail!
Porsche did a complete demostration how far they can go with the M96/97 engines... The only important thing for them is the profit = MONEY-MONEY-MONEY $$$$$$$$. The customers are in second or third place.
Do you really guys think that they have build a high endurance and troublefree new engine?
We know how Porsche works and "how important" we are for them ...
It's incredible to build this BS M96 with the internal failures for a long decade without solving the problems. The first error was the dry sump, then the way to build these engines, but the worst stuff has been the response to all the clients who had suffered issues. They have a very profitable department just ready to rebuild blown engines instead of solve the problem cutting the root.
I always will clap all the private initiatives like Raby, Autofarm or others which are fighting against the gigant.
Porsche did a complete demostration how far they can go with the M96/97 engines... The only important thing for them is the profit = MONEY-MONEY-MONEY $$$$$$$$. The customers are in second or third place.
Do you really guys think that they have build a high endurance and troublefree new engine?
We know how Porsche works and "how important" we are for them ...
It's incredible to build this BS M96 with the internal failures for a long decade without solving the problems. The first error was the dry sump, then the way to build these engines, but the worst stuff has been the response to all the clients who had suffered issues. They have a very profitable department just ready to rebuild blown engines instead of solve the problem cutting the root.
I always will clap all the private initiatives like Raby, Autofarm or others which are fighting against the gigant.
Do really believe Porsche ignored engine failures so they could profit from replacement engines? It takes a long time to develop new technology so four years until a 3.6 and then four more for a new powerplant seems about normal.
Out of curiosity, what is the high performance and high endurance engine that you want? Has there ever been a Porsche engine that meets those criteria? Or any other high end sports car? Try owning a Ferrari (80k for a GM transmission with a modified belhousing)
No offense to Jake, he has a great reputation, and seems to be doing some very good work, but he also doesn't have over 100k engines in service for the last decade, so although his work looks promising, we're not really sure his technology is the fix either.
12-11-2008, 10:51 AM
#41
Pinecone Watchman
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Well, I just spoke with the service adviser and he said that PCNA will be delivering a new engine next Tuesday. It should be ready to go by the end of next week. Perhaps not surprisingly, he was rather tight lipped as to the mode of failure (Q: Did the bearing race fail or did the IMS walk out of the Block? A: /crickets/). He just said "internal engine failure" and I'm getting a new engine with a two year unlimited mile warranty. I guess I should thank my lucky stars for CPO.
I also asked about the clutch wear. He didn't know, but said that a new kit is about $800 and he'll "check on the extra labor". I asked if it take more time to install a new clutch as opposed to reinstalling the old one. A: /crickets/. He apparently had not had his morning coffee.
At least I should be back running my rolling chicane routine for the February DE.
I also asked about the clutch wear. He didn't know, but said that a new kit is about $800 and he'll "check on the extra labor". I asked if it take more time to install a new clutch as opposed to reinstalling the old one. A: /crickets/. He apparently had not had his morning coffee.
At least I should be back running my rolling chicane routine for the February DE.
12-11-2008, 10:57 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
No offense to Jake, he has a great reputation, and seems to be doing some very good work, but he also doesn't have over 100k engines in service for the last decade, so although his work looks promising, we're not really sure his technology is the fix either.
When someone creates a time machine that will allow us to cycle the engines for a hundred thousand miles in 30 minutes of test time we'll be able to answer the questions of how what we are creating will live over the serious long haul... But thats nothing but fiction and until then we'll have to do the best we can and test our components as harshly as possible in my lab and in the field with data acquisition, doing our best to force failures.
As I have stated in several forums already, if we experience a SINGLE failure of a customer's engine its game over for our program and we know that. Due to this there are no risks being taken and the parts are being made as grossly overbuilt as possible and nothing is being spared cost wise when creating them and testing them. Hell, we went through 3 generations of the IMS update before the first unit was ever employed into even a test engine!
Certanly time will tell how effective we have been and trust me, I hope to be sitting here 12-15 years from now making people eat their words who have said negative things about the effectiveness of the program we have created, but luck has a hell of a lot to do with that.
Anything I am associated with will only be done a scientifically and comprehensively as possible...
That said, in about 3 months I'll have an Employee on the payroll whos only job is to drive an updated M96 engined Boxster 300+ miles a day all across this country to gain time and wear on our engines. I hope to employ him until the engine does reach 100K miles without any issues and the best part is he'll be able to drive the car to allow others to experience what we have created all over this Continent. It may only be one single vehicle instead of hundreds of thousands but I'll bet that Porsche didn't do anything similar to it when they developed the M96 engine.
Our method of engine assembly doesn't include robots or devices that torque fasteners 16 at a time ike at the Porswche factory today. We are using the same approach that Porsche used with the aircooled 911 when it was a hand built vehicle with an engine assembled by a single highly motivated, enthusiastic specialist individual from start to finish. This approach isn't cheap, isn't fast but it is the approach that got Porsche where they are today and guess what, that approach is still believed to be employed by lots of people that buy new Porsches.
There are no clocks in my shop and my Employees are not paid based on their productivity. The ONLY thing I give a damn about is effectiveness. remember, I have a very successful aircooled business and really have taken on the M96 as a challenge-
12-11-2008, 11:04 AM
#43
"Porsche's models are very young, profitability is the highest in the industry and their growth is high," said Jürgen Pieper, an analyst at Bankhaus Metzler in Frankfurt, who has a "buy" rating on Porsche shares. "The second half should be even better."
Porsche's profit margin is the greatest of any major manufacturer in the industry. Pretax profit as a proportion of sales was 18.8 percent in its most recent fiscal year, compared with a 9 percent margin at Toyota, 9.3 percent at Nissan and 8 percent at Bayerische Motoren Werke.
Do really believe Porsche ignored engine failures so they could profit from replacement engines? It takes a long time to develop new technology so four years until a 3.6 and then four more for a new powerplant seems about normal.
Out of curiosity, what is the high performance and high endurance engine that you want? Has there ever been a Porsche engine that meets those criteria? Or any other high end sports car? Try owning a Ferrari (80k for a GM transmission with a modified belhousing)
No offense to Jake, he has a great reputation, and seems to be doing some very good work, but he also doesn't have over 100k engines in service for the last decade, so although his work looks promising, we're not really sure his technology is the fix either.
Having said all that, I love mine and it's the way a sports car should be and feel. For now, the driving and owning experience outweigh the potential future mechanical woes. And if it ever gets to the point where the potential future woes outweigh the experience, then I will probably move on to a GT3 or Turbo. My Porsche is my super-model and I have a love and hate relationship with her.
///Michael
12-11-2008, 11:24 AM
#44
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Well, I just spoke with the service adviser and he said that PCNA will be delivering a new engine next Tuesday. It should be ready to go by the end of next week. Perhaps not surprisingly, he was rather tight lipped as to the mode of failure (Q: Did the bearing race fail or did the IMS walk out of the Block? A: /crickets/). He just said "internal engine failure" and I'm getting a new engine with a two year unlimited mile warranty. I guess I should thank my lucky stars for CPO.
I also asked about the clutch wear. He didn't know, but said that a new kit is about $800 and he'll "check on the extra labor". I asked if it take more time to install a new clutch as opposed to reinstalling the old one. A: /crickets/. He apparently had not had his morning coffee.
At least I should be back running my rolling chicane routine for the February DE.
I also asked about the clutch wear. He didn't know, but said that a new kit is about $800 and he'll "check on the extra labor". I asked if it take more time to install a new clutch as opposed to reinstalling the old one. A: /crickets/. He apparently had not had his morning coffee.
At least I should be back running my rolling chicane routine for the February DE.
You are right on for calling them on the "extra labor" cost if you want/need to install a new clutch kit. A box of donuts or breakfast pastries could go a long way to help eliminate the thought of any "extra labor" charges. you could drop them off to the service manager and say something like, "This is a small way of saying how much I appreciate the work you and your techs did to get my issue identified. Please make sure you let the techs know that I appreciate what they do."
While you are at it, you may want to consider a new throwout bearing too. They are about $80 +/-. Also have them check the throwout bearing guide tube for wear. Those are about $40 +/-.
12-11-2008, 11:44 AM
#45
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The majority of what we are doing has been proven for around 3.5 years with exception of the newest IMS retrofit bearing assembly. While thats not 10 years with hundreds of thousands of miles we at least have been working on it while others have sat on their hands and done nothing.
When someone creates a time machine that will allow us to cycle the engines for a hundred thousand miles in 30 minutes of test time we'll be able to answer the questions of how what we are creating will live over the serious long haul... But thats nothing but fiction and until then we'll have to do the best we can and test our components as harshly as possible in my lab and in the field with data acquisition, doing our best to force failures.
As I have stated in several forums already, if we experience a SINGLE failure of a customer's engine its game over for our program and we know that. Due to this there are no risks being taken and the parts are being made as grossly overbuilt as possible and nothing is being spared cost wise when creating them and testing them. Hell, we went through 3 generations of the IMS update before the first unit was ever employed into even a test engine!
Certanly time will tell how effective we have been and trust me, I hope to be sitting here 12-15 years from now making people eat their words who have said negative things about the effectiveness of the program we have created, but luck has a hell of a lot to do with that.
Anything I am associated with will only be done a scientifically and comprehensively as possible...
That said, in about 3 months I'll have an Employee on the payroll whos only job is to drive an updated M96 engined Boxster 300+ miles a day all across this country to gain time and wear on our engines. I hope to employ him until the engine does reach 100K miles without any issues and the best part is he'll be able to drive the car to allow others to experience what we have created all over this Continent. It may only be one single vehicle instead of hundreds of thousands but I'll bet that Porsche didn't do anything similar to it when they developed the M96 engine.
Our method of engine assembly doesn't include robots or devices that torque fasteners 16 at a time ike at the Porswche factory today. We are using the same approach that Porsche used with the aircooled 911 when it was a hand built vehicle with an engine assembled by a single highly motivated, enthusiastic specialist individual from start to finish. This approach isn't cheap, isn't fast but it is the approach that got Porsche where they are today and guess what, that approach is still believed to be employed by lots of people that buy new Porsches.
There are no clocks in my shop and my Employees are not paid based on their productivity. The ONLY thing I give a damn about is effectiveness. remember, I have a very successful aircooled business and really have taken on the M96 as a challenge-
When someone creates a time machine that will allow us to cycle the engines for a hundred thousand miles in 30 minutes of test time we'll be able to answer the questions of how what we are creating will live over the serious long haul... But thats nothing but fiction and until then we'll have to do the best we can and test our components as harshly as possible in my lab and in the field with data acquisition, doing our best to force failures.
As I have stated in several forums already, if we experience a SINGLE failure of a customer's engine its game over for our program and we know that. Due to this there are no risks being taken and the parts are being made as grossly overbuilt as possible and nothing is being spared cost wise when creating them and testing them. Hell, we went through 3 generations of the IMS update before the first unit was ever employed into even a test engine!
Certanly time will tell how effective we have been and trust me, I hope to be sitting here 12-15 years from now making people eat their words who have said negative things about the effectiveness of the program we have created, but luck has a hell of a lot to do with that.
Anything I am associated with will only be done a scientifically and comprehensively as possible...
That said, in about 3 months I'll have an Employee on the payroll whos only job is to drive an updated M96 engined Boxster 300+ miles a day all across this country to gain time and wear on our engines. I hope to employ him until the engine does reach 100K miles without any issues and the best part is he'll be able to drive the car to allow others to experience what we have created all over this Continent. It may only be one single vehicle instead of hundreds of thousands but I'll bet that Porsche didn't do anything similar to it when they developed the M96 engine.
Our method of engine assembly doesn't include robots or devices that torque fasteners 16 at a time ike at the Porswche factory today. We are using the same approach that Porsche used with the aircooled 911 when it was a hand built vehicle with an engine assembled by a single highly motivated, enthusiastic specialist individual from start to finish. This approach isn't cheap, isn't fast but it is the approach that got Porsche where they are today and guess what, that approach is still believed to be employed by lots of people that buy new Porsches.
There are no clocks in my shop and my Employees are not paid based on their productivity. The ONLY thing I give a damn about is effectiveness. remember, I have a very successful aircooled business and really have taken on the M96 as a challenge-
Last edited by smshirk; 12-11-2008 at 11:44 AM. Reason: sp